Transparent Base?

splasha

splasha

Detail Decepticon!
Hi, All.
Being a noob to the AB world, and also not having any formal art training, I was wondering if another of you fine people out there would take time to explain what transparent base is and what it can do for our art.
I'm being confused by the huge variety of things like polymer gels, guessoes fixatives and the like as they all seem relatively similar, but all have varying degrees of viscosity and uses.
I'm thinking transparent base would be a paint, without pigment, that you add to an existing paint or cover an area of your work you consider to be finished to protect it from accidentals like overspray.
Would this be right?
Fixative, I've since discovered is used to protect and preserve our finished work, and comes in a range of finishes from Matte through High Gloss.
Guessoes, I gather, are preparatory additives used to prepare surfaces for painting.Right?
Would help some of my [and others, I'm guessing] confusion.
Thanks for the help.
Splasha.:)
 
You are on the right track.

Transbase can also be added to paint to lessen opacity. As an inter coat as you mentioned. Kind of a needed thing.

I use it all the time.
 
I use it to make my opaques transparent and sometimes lay a couple of coats down before i start to paint depending on the surface
 
Wm and Matty are right , but it all depends on what paint you are using : the Etac efx transparent base can not be used as a inner coat clear to protect your work . the transparent base is the paint without the pigment and has the same nature as the paint it self : if you can erase your paints a transparent base will not protect your work , if you cant erase your paint the transparent base will give you some protection but not much as it is just the same as the paint.
 
Thanks, guys.
So am I right in assuming that the addition of transparent layers is to create the illusion of depth in a work?
That is, as well as affording some "shielding" to surrounding areas that have not been completed, sort of like a mask?
Sounds a littlte like it adds volume to colour, as well.
 
splasha said:
Thanks, guys.
So am I right in assuming that the addition of transparent layers is to create the illusion of depth in a work?
That is, as well as affording some "shielding" to surrounding areas that have not been completed, sort of like a mask?
Sounds a littlte like it adds volume to colour, as well.
Click to expand...
I am not sure what you expect from the transparent base , but I only use it to make the opaque paints like black and white transparent , and add it to my transparent paints to gain more control over the paint . You are right if you assume that the use of transparent paints will give you more depthbut that is something different than the use of only the transparent base : that wont add anything to your work and like I stated it will not protect your work like you hope for
 
Transparant base with waterbased paints will not make an opaque transparant, it will reduce the amount of pigment in the amount of paint you use, so it will apear more transparant. With enough layers you will get 100% coverage though (as oposed to a true transparant which will always have the layer beneath it shine through)

With eurethane based paints (HOK/Inspire etc) a transparant base (intercoat) is often used to protect already aplied layers, prevent bleeding from candies etc. So here it can be used as a kind of clear layer.

Adding depth with this is a bit the same as the old animated movies where they painted on glass panes and stacked them creating the illusion of depth. Adding a layer of intercoat or clearcoat will act as a glaspane due to it's thickness (a layer painted on top of that will be a tiny bit away from the layer beneath it creating some depth depending on the thickness of the layer)
 
haasje dutchairbrush said:
Transparant base with waterbased paints will not make an opaque transparant, it will reduce the amount of pigment in the amount of paint you use, so it will apear more transparant. With enough layers you will get 100% coverage though (as oposed to a true transparant which will always have the layer beneath it shine through)

With eurethane based paints (HOK/Inspire etc) a transparant base (intercoat) is often used to protect already aplied layers, prevent bleeding from candies etc. So here it can be used as a kind of clear layer.

Adding depth with this is a bit the same as the old animated movies where they painted on glass panes and stacked them creating the illusion of depth. Adding a layer of intercoat or clearcoat will act as a glaspane due to it's thickness (a layer painted on top of that will be a tiny bit away from the layer beneath it creating some depth depending on the thickness of the layer)
Click to expand...
Well you learn something new everyday, i thought the com-art base made opaques transparent, my apologies to the original poster for the wrong info
 
matty171 said:
Well you learn something new everyday, i thought the com-art base made opaques transparent, my apologies to the original poster for the wrong info
Click to expand...

I'm just posting what I know about it, I can also be wrong :p. I did test a transparant base with an opaque (think it was schminke) once and that remained opaque.

I wouldn't know how adding a transparant base to an opaque would make it transparant as a tiny bit of an opaque paint added to transparant paint will make the transparant turn opaque (again as far as my experience with it goes :D).
 
haasje dutchairbrush said:
I'm just posting what I know about it, I can also be wrong :p. I did test a transparant base with an opaque (think it was schminke) once and that remained opaque.

I wouldn't know how adding a transparant base to an opaque would make it transparant as a tiny bit of an opaque paint added to transparant paint will make the transparant turn opaque (again as far as my experience with it goes :D).
Click to expand...

Well id take your advice over mine any-day
 
Haasje in a you are right about the opaques with the transparent base will not make a pure transparent . I only use the mix for changing the tint, tone and shade of a transparent color with out loosing transparency :) I always add 20 drops of the trans base to 1 drop opaque and it works like a charm ;)
 
Will the use of transparent base prevent bleeding / blending of colour or does it just cover what's beneath it and sort of seal it?
 
With eurethanes you will seal it, with waterbased you'll just add a layer of paint that is transparant :D.

Beware that when talking about sealing / intercoat / bleeding people are refering to eurethane paints which have different propperties than waterbased paints.
 
Thanks, Hassje.
I sort of suspected that was the case, because after reading some of the earlier discussions about urethane vs waterbased paints, it became clear that the 2 have very different attributes and definately do not play well together!
When you refer to an intercoat, is this where you apply transparent base to "seperate" parts of your work, ie. background from say, a detailed foreground area?
 
haasje dutchairbrush said:
I'm just posting what I know about it, I can also be wrong :p. I did test a transparant base with an opaque (think it was schminke) once and that remained opaque.
Click to expand...

Oh, you are correct Hassje.

At the workshop we where told that an opaque color will always be opaque, no matter what you add to it. In other words, if you mix a transparent color with an opaque the result will always be an opaque color.
 
My understanding which was explained to me reduced to the most basic level is that opaque paints have bigger paint particles to give maximum saturation of colour and transparent paints have the paint articles ground finer and take many more coats to reach saturation, (saturation being where the colour has reached the maximum of the paints ability to cover and no matter how many more coats you apply the colour won't change).
Adding a clear base to paint will do the opposite to reducing paint and will separate the paint particles more but as stated above, the coats of paint beneath a coat of opaque will not show through the same as it will with transparent paint, the whole purpose of transparent paint is to be able to utilize the artwork / colour underneath it and allow it to show through.
 
splasha said:
When you refer to an intercoat, is this where you apply transparent base to "seperate" parts of your work, ie. background from say, a detailed foreground area?
Click to expand...

Intercoat as the term say's is a coat between layers. It is most often used in reference to HOK paint (eurethane) wher the pigmentless paint is called "intercoat clear".

As the properties of urethanes are different from waterbased this pugmentless paint can be used to seal a layer for protection, to prevent candies bleeding through or just to add a layer to create depth.

So this is not in reference to waterbased paints where you would actualy have to use a layer of clearcoat to get the same effect as waterbeased pigmentless paint (transparant base) just doesn't have the properties of a urethane paint.
 
Oddball said:
My understanding which was explained to me reduced to the most basic level is that opaque paints have bigger paint particles to give maximum saturation of colour and transparent paints have the paint articles ground finer and take many more coats to reach saturation, (saturation being where the colour has reached the maximum of the paints ability to cover and no matter how many more coats you apply the colour won't change).
Adding a clear base to paint will do the opposite to reducing paint and will separate the paint particles more but as stated above, the coats of paint beneath a coat of opaque will not show through the same as it will with transparent paint, the whole purpose of transparent paint is to be able to utilize the artwork / colour underneath it and allow it to show through.
Click to expand...


As far as I know (and this is ancient knowledge from when I was in school... went there on the family mamoth :p) every pigment is basicly transparant thus every paint is basicly transparant. It becomes opaque by adding either white or black. This is also explains why transparants are often more vibrant color wise as they are not "polluted" by black or white.

I tested this once by adding a drop of white to a transparant yellow and it imidiately went opaque (also the reason why when adding even a tiny bit of opaque to a transparant the transparant will turn opaque)
 
My understanding which was explained to me reduced to the most basic level is that opaque paints have bigger paint particles to give maximum saturation of colour and transparent paints have the paint articles ground finer and take many more coats to reach saturation
Click to expand...

Yer not quite correct. As Haasje mentioned its about the type of pigment that is used, some pigments are naturally see through (Or more to the fact allows light to pass through ie-transparent) some pigment blocks/bounces that light back thus is opaque, not all pigment though is one or the other (IE White ;) and others). By adding white all your doing is combining the pigment types and obviously the white turns it opaque as the white will stop that light going through. A lot of people see semi-opaque as transparent and it kinda is to a degree as in areas where there is little opaque pigment laid down, so light may still travel through the transparent pigment present, but that all relates to how much of which type of pigment is laid down and also how it disperses amongst each other.

The best way I think to describe it is imagine laying down on a crapload of clear/tinted glass marbles on a white surface so they are all touching each other, then on top of that layer lay down another layer of the same type of marble, thats similar to the crystaline structure of transparent paint. Light will travel through those marbles, hit the white surface and refract back to the eye. Now add another 5 or 6 layers, light will still go through and refract but will appear much darker, so on and so on (Thats saturation) the light is in essence still going through but less and less gets back to the eye the more layers you add as it gets refracted in different directions by the pure amount of marbles, thus making it appear darker and darker etc..

Do the same thought experiment by adding half of those marbles with an opaque white marble, refraction and transparency still occurs to some point but some of it is also bounced directly back to the viewer off those white marbles and what does make it through the transparent marble, it may then get bounced off the white marbles locked in that matrix, thus the same color tends to come back no matter how many layers you add so in essence to use others terminology you've capped that color- and obviously if they are all opaque marbles, no light makes it through but is immediately refracted or some is absorbed but that goes more into discussions about the spectrum of light and how our eyes and brains interpret it..

So in essence adding a transparent base has absolutely no effect on the actual pigments properties, it will still be an opaque or transparent pigment, what a trans base does is it allows more dispersion of that pigment (IE Take those marbles and spread them out so there not all touching or in essence add a lot more transparent marbles in between, it can help make a opaque look more transparent but due to that reason) if you then add more and more coats you will in essence then be laying more pigment in those in between areas and such an opaque with that transparent base will eventually just go back to its normal nature of being fully opaque as your filling in or overlaying those gaps..

Soz about the long post but this kinda stuff interests me..

But the moral of the story is I have never used a transparent base in my life besides for protection or to give a little depth or oomph to a paint mid way as it allows the light to refract differently through it to the opaque base below and back to the eye (IE Clear Coats), so in essence it does little more than reduce the paint for greater dispersion and as it has its own binders and such sometimes at really high reductions can be better than water in some brands as water can break down the binders, in some brands water can achieve the exact same effect..

Grind size is important though within the context of the above as the smaller you grind something down the more chance you have of turning that opaque pigment into a transparent pigment by pure size alone but again, probably a whole new wall post LOL
 
Last edited:
RebelAir said:
Yer not quite correct. As Haasje mentioned its about the type of pigment that is used, some pigments are naturally see through (Or more to the fact allows light to pass through ie-transparent) some pigment blocks/bounces that light back thus is opaque, not all pigment though is one or the other (IE White ;) and others). By adding white all your doing is combining the pigment types and obviously the white turns it opaque as the white will stop that light going through. A lot of people see semi-opaque as transparent and it kinda is to a degree as in areas where there is little opaque pigment laid down, so light may still travel through the transparent pigment present, but that all relates to how much of which type of pigment is laid down and also how it disperses amongst each other.

The best way I think to describe it is imagine laying down on a crapload of clear/tinted glass marbles on a white surface so they are all touching each other, then on top of that layer lay down another layer of the same type of marble, thats similar to the crystaline structure of transparent paint. Light will travel through those marbles, hit the white surface and refract back to the eye. Now add another 5 or 6 layers, light will still go through and refract but will appear much darker, so on and so on (Thats saturation) the light is in essence still going through but less and less gets back to the eye the more layers you add as it gets refracted in different directions by the pure amount of marbles, thus making it appear darker and darker etc..

Do the same thought experiment by adding half of those marbles with an opaque white marble, refraction and transparency still occurs to some point but some of it is also bounced directly back to the viewer off those white marbles and what does make it through the transparent marble, it may then get bounced off the white marbles locked in that matrix, thus the same color tends to come back no matter how many layers you add so in essence to use others terminology you've capped that color- and obviously if they are all opaque marbles, no light makes it through but is immediately refracted or some is absorbed but that goes more into discussions about the spectrum of light and how our eyes and brains interpret it..

So in essence adding a transparent base has absolutely no effect on the actual pigments properties, it will still be an opaque or transparent pigment, what a trans base does is it allows more dispersion of that pigment (IE Take those marbles and spread them out so there not all touching or in essence add a lot more transparent marbles in between, it can help make a opaque look more transparent but due to that reason) if you then add more and more coats you will in essence then be laying more pigment in those in between areas and such an opaque with that transparent base will eventually just go back to its normal nature of being fully opaque as your filling in or overlaying those gaps..

Soz about the long post but this kinda stuff interests me..

But the moral of the story is I have never used a transparent base in my life besides for protection or to give a little depth or oomph to a paint mid way as it allows the light to refract differently through it to the opaque base below and back to the eye (IE Clear Coats), so in essence it does little more than reduce the paint for greater dispersion and as it has its own binders and such sometimes at really high reductions can be better than water in some brands as water can break down the binders, in some brands water can achieve the exact same effect..

Grind size is important though within the context of the above as the smaller you grind something down the more chance you have of turning that opaque pigment into a transparent pigment by pure size alone but again, probably a whole new wall post LOL
Click to expand...

Holy shiz that was a lot to take in but your marble description helped me take it in. i need all info like this in the the "for dummies" format
 
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