Advice required please?

A

Alan Fogarty

Guest
Hi Guys

totally new to airbrushing but want to give it a go! My main inspiration is a customised paint job on my HD V Rod Muscle which I want to do.

I am doing my research at the moment on the required equipment, compressor, brushes, accessories, paint thinners, clear coating etc?

I have been googling a lot and watching many videos but, I do need some specific advice if anyone can help please ?

  1. I am looking at a dental type compressor ( silent )with a 30- 50 liter tank regulated between 0 & 8 bar, 160 - 200L / min airflow, auto start / stop, moisture trap, coated tank. I know this is a larger capacity than I require for airbrushing but, I will be using the compressor for other things and also may have larger area spray work to do? Does this set-up sound ok ?
  2. Airbrushes, I do need help here? I have read the good, the bad and the ugly but still I am confused? I have looked at the top level brushes but, I have read that there are many clones out there and most brushes are made in China and that you should go for the cheaper Chinese value brushes? I have then watched many YouTube vid. reviews of the cheap Chinese brushes and the guys reviewing say such things as excellent value for the money and give half decent views! Then a text window appears on the window saying "Subsequently, since making this video I have realised that this brush is actually crap" Named brushes such as Veda and RoyalMax. What is the truth about such brushes, is it just luck of the draw due to low cost components? Some brushes are good and some are bad? Then I read that Iwata Iwata Eclipse HP-CS and Iwata HP-C Plus are excellent brushes? I think I need a general brush, a fine work brush and then a brush for base coating (background coverage)? Would the 2 Iwata's do for the general and fine work? What would anyone recommend for the background coverage working please?
  3. The other thing with brushes and auto paint is that the seals surely need to be solvent proof? Something like nitrile! I cannot find this as an option with the brushes I have seen? Can anyone advise me please?
  4. Other accessories, obviously moisture trap and regulator on the compressor but, do I need an additional inline moisture trap? What about brush docking / cleaning station, any recommendations please?
  5. Paint, hmm......Opaque colours for background and translucent for foreground is about all I know! What type of paint(s) is / are best for automotive work? I have read and heard a lot about House of Color paints. Can anyone give me some more guidance or put me right if what I have stated is wrong here? Also an associated subject, thinners, clear coats for finishing and also in between coats I have heard that you sometimes need a sealing clear coat to stop paint bleed?
Well, I am sure that will do for starters! We all have to start somewhere please remember that and try not to be too seething towards beginners with your answers please guys LoL....seriously though, any advice and help would be gratefully accepted!

Many thanks

Alan
 
Well. Welcome to the forum.

I started airbrushing for the same reason. Just not a Harley. Can't afford one yet.

The compressor will be great, if a bit small for larger spraying, it will work intermittently though. I have a small silent inside for airbrushing and 60 gal for larger spraying in the garage.

As for brushes, Iwata's are never a bad idea, the HP-CS is a great all around airbrush. It can hose paint and do smaller detail. For larger spraying a mini gun is great for base coating. You can do it with an airbrush but it takes a lot longer. When you clear pat your bike you'll need it anyway. I have all Iwata brushes, from Microns for tight detail to the Hp-CS for more general use. They also make an HP-TH which is a .5 size with a trigger and a choice of round or fan air cap. I have one and it can also be used for small base coating.

Paint.

Water based is great for indoor spraying and more often it's used these days in automotive production paint. You still need a catalyzed primer and clear for working on metal especially bikes.

I painted my whole bike this way. I used epoxy primer , Createx water based paint and sealer, and HOK clear.

The urethanes like HOK are great, but definitely should be sprayed outside of the home, and definitely wear a good respirator. These are what you need if you want the look of traditional candy jobs.

Think that about does it for your questions. I'm sure there will be more.


Buy quality paint, brushes, and a compressor, and use them as per instructions and you'll be fine.
 
Silent Air 50 is a great and long lasting compressor (Dental , medical use)
Iwata is a great airbrush the Eclipse CS was the first one I bought and it can do just about everything you would need an airbrush to do to include detail but it takes lots of practice .
Detail brush I have 3 Micron CM-C+ , H&S infinity .15 and the Badger Krome. Out of the 3 replacement parts are cheapest on the Krome then followed by the H&S and of course the CM-C+ is the most costly but if you are a careful person you should not had to be buying a lot of parts.
As far as Base coats Mini Sata spray gun or any mini spray gun , You will want at least two one for primer/base and one for clear.
I only run clear in the one I have set up for clear.Makes my life easier:D
Most airbrush that are made now all have the teflon needle bearing seal.
Yes I always suggest a pistol grip moisture trap for two reasons , First water build up in the lines and second it gives you a better gripping surface to hold on to. I do have airbrush hangers to hold the airbrush while I do different effects or am just taking a quick break . I do not use an airbrush cleaning station like the ultrasonic ones.
Paints , That is about like asking what airbrush is the best. Depending on the job and budget is how I pick what paint I will be using.
HOK house of Kolor is my favorite paint but now comes the question is what is you painting area set up like.
Paint booth with full filter system area required to not only keep you safe but those in surrounding building and houses safe and toxin free. But nothing wrong with PPG or other brands of automotive paint.
But if you are doing a Candy paint job you want urethane paints to really get a huge pop when it is all finished.
But water based paint such as Wicked (made by Createx ) is designed to paint on metal and almost any surface and is color fast so it does not fade in sunlight. E'tac is another good brand and the new kid on the block is Trident.
But I also always suggest that once you pick a paint MFG that you learn everything about using it safely and how it works at different reductions and air pressure for the equipment you are using.
Hope this answers some of your questions.
 
The old can of worms gets opened again lol.... Airbrush choice is a massive debate that will never end... Dont get cheap chinese copy of anything, they are rubbish at best really. Look at ALL the top brands Iwata, H&S, Badger or whatever and find a brush you like and can afford from each.... Look at spares, both availability and price. If possible go and touch and feel as many as you can, not always easy!

Contact the manufacturer's or the retailers and ask as much as you think you need to, most will be very helpful. When the heated debate in this thread has died down you will see that its a pretty open choice with a lot of answers lol

Fire away guys!
 
The old can of worms gets opened again lol.... Airbrush choice is a massive debate that will never end... Dont get cheap chinese copy of anything, they are rubbish at best really. Look at ALL the top brands Iwata, H&S, Badger or whatever and find a brush you like and can afford from each.... Look at spares, both availability and price. If possible go and touch and feel as many as you can, not always easy!

Contact the manufacturer's or the retailers and ask as much as you think you need to, most will be very helpful. When the heated debate in this thread has died down you will see that its a pretty open choice with a lot of answers lol

Fire away guys!
So what you are really saying is Ford vs Chevy :D
Yes there is no right answer to which airbrush is the best , It is what fits you best and which one you like using the most .
 
Just to add... I got myself the H&S evolution 2in1 kit.... Some have had bad expierience with them... Must say I havn't heard many slag off the Iwata. I got the H&S mainly on a cost for me basis... Damn nice airbrush for me though, no regrets with purchase.
 
Just to add... I got myself the H&S evolution 2in1 kit.... Some have had bad expierience with them... Must say I havn't heard many slag off the Iwata. I got the H&S mainly on a cost for me basis... Damn nice airbrush for me though, no regrets with purchase.
H&S do have a nice feel to them.
 
Many thanks for your reply Herb!

I was going to setup in my garage, its nearly triple car size and sheltered, good lighting and all other bike work takes place in there also! It is also kept clean. I was going to make my own paint booth with extraction ducted to outside! I will need to get an idea on a design?

The bike paint project will be a skull, ghost rider type of design design in BLACK and WHITE and all shades in between ( SILVER also ) no other colour! I am very keen on HOK paints from what I have heard and read. The white is supposed to be the best available so I have heard? Anyway, with this in mind would you suggest water colours or automotive for the best effects?

Alan
 
Whew loads of questions.
When people tell you the chinese airbrushes are hit and miss they are right. I have 2 from the same company and one works ok and one is utter crap. But the one that works ok was modified by me. Even on its best days it is nowhere near as good as my badger Krome.

Needing 3 airbrushes, when starting out a detail brush is going to be harder to use than a general purpose brush. If i were starting today with the knowledge i have after a few months i would have just bought a .35 nozzle iwata eclipse. The detail between that and a detail brush in the hands of a beginner is non existent. Get one brush learn one brush first, money and frustratuon will be saved.

Wont begin to touch on paints because many of your questions will pertain to automotive.
 
Well. Welcome to the forum.

I started airbrushing for the same reason. Just not a Harley. Can't afford one yet.

The compressor will be great, if a bit small for larger spraying, it will work intermittently though. I have a small silent inside for airbrushing and 60 gal for larger spraying in the garage.

As for brushes, Iwata's are never a bad idea, the HP-CS is a great all around airbrush. It can hose paint and do smaller detail. For larger spraying a mini gun is great for base coating. You can do it with an airbrush but it takes a lot longer. When you clear pat your bike you'll need it anyway. I have all Iwata brushes, from Microns for tight detail to the Hp-CS for more general use. They also make an HP-TH which is a .5 size with a trigger and a choice of round or fan air cap. I have one and it can also be used for small base coating.

Paint.

Water based is great for indoor spraying and more often it's used these days in automotive production paint. You still need a catalyzed primer and clear for working on metal especially bikes.

I painted my whole bike this way. I used epoxy primer , Createx water based paint and sealer, and HOK clear.

The urethanes like HOK are great, but definitely should be sprayed outside of the home, and definitely wear a good respirator. These are what you need if you want the look of traditional candy jobs.

Think that about does it for your questions. I'm sure there will be more.


Buy quality paint, brushes, and a compressor, and use them as per instructions and you'll be fine.
 
Silent Air 50 is a great and long lasting compressor (Dental , medical use)
Iwata is a great airbrush the Eclipse CS was the first one I bought and it can do just about everything you would need an airbrush to do to include detail but it takes lots of practice .
Detail brush I have 3 Micron CM-C+ , H&S infinity .15 and the Badger Krome. Out of the 3 replacement parts are cheapest on the Krome then followed by the H&S and of course the CM-C+ is the most costly but if you are a careful person you should not had to be buying a lot of parts.
As far as Base coats Mini Sata spray gun or any mini spray gun , You will want at least two one for primer/base and one for clear.
I only run clear in the one I have set up for clear.Makes my life easier:D
Most airbrush that are made now all have the teflon needle bearing seal.
Yes I always suggest a pistol grip moisture trap for two reasons , First water build up in the lines and second it gives you a better gripping surface to hold on to. I do have airbrush hangers to hold the airbrush while I do different effects or am just taking a quick break . I do not use an airbrush cleaning station like the ultrasonic ones.
Paints , That is about like asking what airbrush is the best. Depending on the job and budget is how I pick what paint I will be using.
HOK house of Kolor is my favorite paint but now comes the question is what is you painting area set up like.
Paint booth with full filter system area required to not only keep you safe but those in surrounding building and houses safe and toxin free. But nothing wrong with PPG or other brands of automotive paint.
But if you are doing a Candy paint job you want urethane paints to really get a huge pop when it is all finished.
But water based paint such as Wicked (made by Createx ) is designed to paint on metal and almost any surface and is color fast so it does not fade in sunlight. E'tac is another good brand and the new kid on the block is Trident.
But I also always suggest that once you pick a paint MFG that you learn everything about using it safely and how it works at different reductions and air pressure for the equipment you are using.
Hope this answers some of your questions.
Well. Welcome to the forum.

I started airbrushing for the same reason. Just not a Harley. Can't afford one yet.

The compressor will be great, if a bit small for larger spraying, it will work intermittently though. I have a small silent inside for airbrushing and 60 gal for larger spraying in the garage.

As for brushes, Iwata's are never a bad idea, the HP-CS is a great all around airbrush. It can hose paint and do smaller detail. For larger spraying a mini gun is great for base coating. You can do it with an airbrush but it takes a lot longer. When you clear pat your bike you'll need it anyway. I have all Iwata brushes, from Microns for tight detail to the Hp-CS for more general use. They also make an HP-TH which is a .5 size with a trigger and a choice of round or fan air cap. I have one and it can also be used for small base coating.

Paint.

Water based is great for indoor spraying and more often it's used these days in automotive production paint. You still need a catalyzed primer and clear for working on metal especially bikes.

I painted my whole bike this way. I used epoxy primer , Createx water based paint and sealer, and HOK clear.

The urethanes like HOK are great, but definitely should be sprayed outside of the home, and definitely wear a good respirator. These are what you need if you want the look of traditional candy jobs.

Think that about does it for your questions. I'm sure there will be more.


Buy quality paint, brushes, and a compressor, and use them as per instructions and you'll be fine.

Wayne

thanks for the reply!

when you say that "You still need a catalyzed primer and clear for working on metal especially bikes" do you mean that after primer you need a clear coat to seal it before applying base coat or any artwork?

The Iwata HP-C Plus, is more of a detailed brush compared to the Iwata Eclipse HP-CS which is a good all rounder! Is that correct?

Many thanks

Alan
 
I think a lot of airbrushers started for that reason including me. :) there are many ways to get it done. I dont get into the technical designs but think the most important thing for you is to give it enough time and get enough training/experiance before your harley....sadly the videos etc look so easy to get the high class stuff done. :)
 
I think a lot of airbrushers started for that reason including me. :) there are many ways to get it done. I dont get into the technical designs but think the most important thing for you is to give it enough time and get enough training/experiance before your harley....sadly the videos etc look so easy to get the high class stuff done. :)
Yes, some of the videos make it seem very easy and, you could run away with yourself thinking that you could be the next Van Gogh, until you see a few videos where the artwork is not much more than animation quality but, the guy doing the video does not take any care or pride in his work but, he intimates that the finished article is good ? That's when I realised that its not easy and requires lots of practice just to get to grips with the brush techniques not alone the actual art?

thanks for the comments

Alan
 
The old can of worms gets opened again lol.... Airbrush choice is a massive debate that will never end... Dont get cheap chinese copy of anything, they are rubbish at best really. Look at ALL the top brands Iwata, H&S, Badger or whatever and find a brush you like and can afford from each.... Look at spares, both availability and price. If possible go and touch and feel as many as you can, not always easy!

Contact the manufacturer's or the retailers and ask as much as you think you need to, most will be very helpful. When the heated debate in this thread has died down you will see that its a pretty open choice with a lot of answers lol

Fire away guys!

Thanks for your comments!

Unfortunately for me (in this respect) I live in SK and nothing is easy to get here? Even if it is available it will be at least twice the price so the looky,touchy, feely thing will probably not be possible for me, until the courier arrives and the unboxing begins? That's why I an looking for as much positive / negative feed back from the experts ( you guys), without anyone getting too personal or upset, if you see what I mean? Yes, when it comes to quality kit, it gets to be a personal choice but, any cheap excremente should be recognised and agreed by the majority right ?
 
Many thanks for your reply Herb!

I was going to setup in my garage, its nearly triple car size and sheltered, good lighting and all other bike work takes place in there also! It is also kept clean. I was going to make my own paint booth with extraction ducted to outside! I will need to get an idea on a design?

The bike paint project will be a skull, ghost rider type of design design in BLACK and WHITE and all shades in between ( SILVER also ) no other colour! I am very keen on HOK paints from what I have heard and read. The white is supposed to be the best available so I have heard? Anyway, with this in mind would you suggest water colours or automotive for the best effects?

Alan
I forgot AutoAir color ,Baddabling silver
The clear coat is the last stag after base coat , art work then clear ,
Unless you go with HOK you have windows of spray time. You will go through a lot of SG100 intercoat clear if you take a lot of breaks on the project. As far as the HOK white being the best in what way do you mean this? Actually if you are taking tip dry white it white and it all gives you tip dry .
Sound like building you own booth in your garage should work out alright being you are only doing bike parts and not a full car or truck.
Now to me silver base , black and white design just screams Pagan gold candy :D over the entire thing...
Or silver base and build all the skulls with black candy which also gives a cool effect.
Lots of ways to do things just finding which way works for you is sometimes the hardest part.
But either water base or urethane will give you the desired results , It comes down to how deep your pockets are and if Korea will allow you to use HOK. that is another thing you have to look into is local paint laws.
 
One other thing , Are you over there in the military ? If so check out the PX in Seoul , They use to carry airbrushes back in the 70's and 80's , Also use to be a Model shop in Dongducheon that carried Iwata and Badger back then too. I know Korea has changed a lot over the years but should still be some places that carry airbrushes in stock
 
I forgot AutoAir color ,Baddabling silver
The clear coat is the last stag after base coat , art work then clear ,
Unless you go with HOK you have windows of spray time. You will go through a lot of SG100 intercoat clear if you take a lot of breaks on the project. As far as the HOK white being the best in what way do you mean this? Actually if you are taking tip dry white it white and it all gives you tip dry .
Sound like building you own booth in your garage should work out alright being you are only doing bike parts and not a full car or truck.
Now to me silver base , black and white design just screams Pagan gold candy :D over the entire thing...
Or silver base and build all the skulls with black candy which also gives a cool effect.
Lots of ways to do things just finding which way works for you is sometimes the hardest part.
But either water base or urethane will give you the desired results , It comes down to how deep your pockets are and if Korea will allow you to use HOK. that is another thing you have to look into is local paint laws.

hmm, lots to think about? I'll get the equipment side sorted first and do some more research on the paint?

Many thanks, will stay in touch!

Alan
 
Hi Alan from the uk. I learned to airbrush to paint my own bike too, and have done a couple of v-rods (which I enjoy because of the big space and no gas caps on the tank cover ;))
So here's my 2 cents worth:-

Chinese copy airbrushes - IMO avoid them unless it's all you can afford. Without meaning to be horrible to anyone, I wonder about the experience of people who make videos about them saying they are good, and wonder if they have anything to compare them too. It definitely is a case of pot luck, and the ones that do work, work well for maybe the first couple of tries, but that's it. And even when they do work, the quality of materials mean that the parts do not last, so longevity is an isssue, and after a while people tend to just buy another brush as it's cheaper. Do that a couple of times, and you could have bought a more expensive one in the first place. Having said that, there are people who are happy with theirs - but I would say it's not a high percentage.
I use an HP-CS (full disclosure - I would have a micron if I could afford one, but only in addition the eclipse not to replace it) as I think it's a perfect brush for automotive. I can do larger areas (not basecoating) as well as some really fine work. It's great to learn on, but you won't outgrow it. I also use it for other applications - fabric, leather, canvas, board etc. (Check out my facebook page in my sig if you want to see what it's capable of, (though please bear in mind, a better artist could do more with it LOL) the HP-CS is the only brush I use for artwork, a mini HVLP for any base and clearcoating.) It has teflon seals, so would be good for uro's if that's the way you decide to go.

Paint - I use Wicked by Createx (not to be confused with normal createx - a fabric paint) with the W500 reducer. The reducer has a very small amount of solvent, and is great for automotive, it dries fast, gives a tough cure, and helps with tip dry too.(Takes some experimenting with pressure and ratios, but tip dry can be negligable even with white, but you will have to do that and learn any paint system you choose). It's waterbased, and lightfast so great for automotive, but also very versatile and can be used an many surfaces. I find no need for intercoating, it can handle low task making between layers if needed, as long as light layers are used and paint is dry. Experimenting with reducing trans (Wicked calls them detail) paints over a metallic silver or gold base gives a really good candy look IMO. And the colours pop nicely (again have a look at the FB page, all paint used is Wicked on all surfaces) As for using opaques V trans if working over a dark basecoat, I use an opaque white to do the detail, then come in with trans for colours, over a white base you can go straight to trans depending on the design. Using uro's as Mr Micron says is a whole other issue with fumes and laws etc, but if you can build a booth, it should be ok. I guess it comes down to what is going to be easiest to get hold of - you don't want to run out of something only to find you can't get any more for ages.

As for a airbrush dock, a couple of hooks with enough space between for the hose to hang would do. basically it doesn't have to be anything special as long as it's secure, and isn't anywhere you are likely to knock it off easily. A cleaning station can be a glass jar with a hole in the lid just big enough for your gun, and have a spare lid without a hole to put on after if you can't or don't want to empty straight away. An extra in line moisture trap certainly can't hurt, whether you need one depends. I don't have one, I don't get hardly any moisture in the one on the compressor and have a super long hose too so it's not an issue for me, but if you can get one then why not. Some people find them a comfortable place to grip .

Clear coating is an art in itself. You definitely need all the gear for this to deal with the cyanides. And you will also need to learn how to buff and polish to get a really top notch glass like look. So you need to take into account being able to get wet and dry papers and polishing compound. I would recommend a 2K clear as it goes on nicely and is also fuel proof (not so much of an issue with the v-rod though I guess :))

It's a steep learning curve, and from my own experience there was a lot more to take in and a longer time to get to grips with it than I first expected. I hadn't given a thought to learning to prep parts or clear. But it was all worth it when I got my trike painted (the bike I wanted to paint had been sold while i was practicing LOl, but I am a slow learner.) You are already a step ahead of the game by coming here to ask these questions first. And will have already saved yourself a ton of time just by getting the right equipment you need. And with the great talented folks around here, when you finally get your kit, you will have all the advice and support you need to learn it all, again saving you months (or even years) of struggle on your own.
 
Hey Squishy

thanks for your time and useful comments! Where abouts on the south coast are you from? I was born in Woolwich , London! The Wicked by Create paints, do you get them in the UK or overseas? They sound good compared to the Urethane's with the safety aspects or using them as well as the transport implications if I cannot get them in South Korean?

Excuse my ignorance with the terminology but, what is a mini HVLP for any base and clear coating.....a mini paint gun, high volume low pressure maybe ?!? Who makes them and what spec. of compressor do you need to operate one?

Thanks again for the info!


Alan
 
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