Advice required please?

[Squishy]

I am right on the South Coast, halfway between Portsmouth and Southampton

I buy the paint in the uk. I really like them, but everyone has their favourite brand so I am probably biased . As it's an all round kind of paint, people who use other kinds like E'tac or Com art (which are better for fine art type of work, though the Wicked can do that too as a versatile paint it is not specifically good for one particular application if that makes any sense, though for me it's perfect for automotive.) which work well straight from the bottle or can be reduced with water, don't seem to like it. Wicked says it works from the bottle but that is with a nozzle over .5 and higher pressure (I actually think that is true of many brands) and you do need the proper reducer to get the best out of it. It takes some trial and error to get the ratios of airpressure/reducer/paint right (again many paints brand need this too)as unfortunately too many variables mean there is no magic formula as such.

My compressor is a bit of a monster as I share it with my hubs who uses it for his air tools too, but it is just a regular compressor thaat you can buy at a hardwear store. Loud as hell of course so if noise is an issue not always ideal, but way cheaper than the silent type. I would say if you want to use it for a mini HVLP gun too, then you need a reasonable sized tank. I'm pretty ignorant as far as air volume and recycle rates etc goes but I'm thinking at least a 25 -50 litre???

 

[Alan Fogarty]

Herb

what size nozzle would you get for the HVLP for base-coat and for clear finish coating please?

 

[Strictly Attitude]

1.3 for base 1.4 for clear are my favs 1.0 on a mini hvlp

 

[Alan Fogarty]

One other thing , Are you over there in the military ? If so check out the PX in Seoul , They use to carry airbrushes back in the 70's and 80's , Also use to be a Model shop in Dongducheon that carried Iwata and Badger back then too. I know Korea has changed a lot over the years but should still be some places that carry airbrushes in stock

No, not in the military, drill ships! I will check it out, thanks!

Alan

 

[Alan Fogarty]

1.3 for base 1.4 for clear are my favs 1.0 on a mini hvlp

Thanks John !

 

[Alan Fogarty]

Hi Alan from the uk. I learned to airbrush to paint my own bike too, and have done a couple of v-rods (which I enjoy because of the big space and no gas caps on the tank cover )
So here's my 2 cents worth:-

Chinese copy airbrushes - IMO avoid them unless it's all you can afford. Without meaning to be horrible to anyone, I wonder about the experience of people who make videos about them saying they are good, and wonder if they have anything to compare them too. It definitely is a case of pot luck, and the ones that do work, work well for maybe the first couple of tries, but that's it. And even when they do work, the quality of materials mean that the parts do not last, so longevity is an isssue, and after a while people tend to just buy another brush as it's cheaper. Do that a couple of times, and you could have bought a more expensive one in the first place. Having said that, there are people who are happy with theirs - but I would say it's not a high percentage.
I use an HP-CS (full disclosure - I would have a micron if I could afford one, but only in addition the eclipse not to replace it) as I think it's a perfect brush for automotive. I can do larger areas (not basecoating) as well as some really fine work. It's great to learn on, but you won't outgrow it. I also use it for other applications - fabric, leather, canvas, board etc. (Check out my facebook page in my sig if you want to see what it's capable of, (though please bear in mind, a better artist could do more with it LOL) the HP-CS is the only brush I use for artwork, a mini HVLP for any base and clearcoating.) It has teflon seals, so would be good for uro's if that's the way you decide to go.

Paint - I use Wicked by Createx (not to be confused with normal createx - a fabric paint) with the W500 reducer. The reducer has a very small amount of solvent, and is great for automotive, it dries fast, gives a tough cure, and helps with tip dry too.(Takes some experimenting with pressure and ratios, but tip dry can be negligable even with white, but you will have to do that and learn any paint system you choose). It's waterbased, and lightfast so great for automotive, but also very versatile and can be used an many surfaces. I find no need for intercoating, it can handle low task making between layers if needed, as long as light layers are used and paint is dry. Experimenting with reducing trans (Wicked calls them detail) paints over a metallic silver or gold base gives a really good candy look IMO. And the colours pop nicely (again have a look at the FB page, all paint used is Wicked on all surfaces) As for using opaques V trans if working over a dark basecoat, I use an opaque white to do the detail, then come in with trans for colours, over a white base you can go straight to trans depending on the design. Using uro's as Mr Micron says is a whole other issue with fumes and laws etc, but if you can build a booth, it should be ok. I guess it comes down to what is going to be easiest to get hold of - you don't want to run out of something only to find you can't get any more for ages.

As for a airbrush dock, a couple of hooks with enough space between for the hose to hang would do. basically it doesn't have to be anything special as long as it's secure, and isn't anywhere you are likely to knock it off easily. A cleaning station can be a glass jar with a hole in the lid just big enough for your gun, and have a spare lid without a hole to put on after if you can't or don't want to empty straight away. An extra in line moisture trap certainly can't hurt, whether you need one depends. I don't have one, I don't get hardly any moisture in the one on the compressor and have a super long hose too so it's not an issue for me, but if you can get one then why not. Some people find them a comfortable place to grip .

Clear coating is an art in itself. You definitely need all the gear for this to deal with the cyanides. And you will also need to learn how to buff and polish to get a really top notch glass like look. So you need to take into account being able to get wet and dry papers and polishing compound. I would recommend a 2K clear as it goes on nicely and is also fuel proof (not so much of an issue with the v-rod though I guess )

It's a steep learning curve, and from my own experience there was a lot more to take in and a longer time to get to grips with it than I first expected. I hadn't given a thought to learning to prep parts or clear. But it was all worth it when I got my trike painted (the bike I wanted to paint had been sold while i was practicing LOl, but I am a slow learner.) You are already a step ahead of the game by coming here to ask these questions first. And will have already saved yourself a ton of time just by getting the right equipment you need. And with the great talented folks around here, when you finally get your kit, you will have all the advice and support you need to learn it all, again saving you months (or even years) of struggle on your own.

 

[Alan Fogarty]

Hi Squishy

haven't been back for a while I know but, compressor and airbrushes on order and I am now away working for another 3 weeks so, I have now been looking at paint in my non working time! hmmm, seems to be a bit of a mine field but, I do like the sound of the Wicked Createx paints.

Can you help me out though as I am not sure what I need or what to get? I only want to work with black, white and maybe siver! The theme of my bike is going to be all panels, tank etc.painted white first and then skull graphics in black shades with some lettering!

So, I would obviously need to rub down all panels, tank etc. ( all new stuff ) and then prime. Then do I then base coat over that with the white? how many coats will I need for the white? Will I need an nitercoat before starting the graphics in the black?

The white that I want is an ice white (Pure white) What would you suggest ( base coat) What primer also?

As I say all the rest will be in shades of black. Are all blacks the same, can you suggest one please?

Do I need inter coat?

What then when all is finished is the best clear top coat that will be colour fast and above all the hardest finish with best scratch resistance ? How many coats are best to apply? Is it the more coats the better and harder finish?

What about cleaning in between coats? I have seen some videos where the artist lightly rubs down his work in between one coat and another then he applies what seens to be something that is solvent based that brings the finish up just like a top coat.

What is best used for rubbing down between coats, different grades of abrasive papers or like a scotch bright pad ?

I know, there must be at least 20 questions there and I do understand if you don't have the time or the inclination to answer, just say?

Many thanks anyway for reading

Kind regards

Alan

 

[Squishy]

Hi Alan quite a few questions but I'll give it a go, I'm sure someone else will chip in if I leave anything out, or if they have a better way etc.

If you are rubbing down to bare metal then you want to start with an etch primer to bond with the metal, a mist coat, then a full coat. Then I like to use a high build primer (after rubbing down any previous paint if not at bare metal), I use cellulose rather than 2 pack - just my preference, although 2 pack goes on thicker. (whatever you decide to use, use the same brand for each process to avoid any issues) Depending on how smooth your surface is you can do just one thick coat, but two if not, then as it's thick you can sand out any imperfections (you can dust with another colour and see where you rub through to find high spots, although if you are painting over with white you may not want to do it that way)

For the base coat I would then use a cellulose paint (again my preference although 2 pack might take less coats to cover, I don't like it because of the drying time, or else I'm just no good with it ). Make sure everything is degreased, and then use a tack rag to remove and dust etc, then spray, overlapping by about 50% each pass. As you want white, it may take a few coats to get an even coverage, just follow the instructions of the paint you use regarding drying times and when you can add the next coat - to the letter!

I don't use an intercoat but you can if you want, I just sand the basecoat then apply the art work using Wicked paints, they have an opaque black and a trans (which they call detail black) and a smoke black, which has a kind of grey/brown tinge to it. You can get variation in tone by the amount of reducer you use. However depending on the design if you need solid coverage I would use opaque black. For varying intensities, tones, and detail then use the trans (detail) black, then if needed mix with trans white for greys.

The wiping you see used in vids between coats of artwork are for solvent based paints which if you are using water based paints is going to be no good. I never clean anything at the artwork stage, unless its a bit of overspray which will just come off with water. You can use a transparent base (which is basically just the paint carrier without pigment) as an intercoat between layers of art to protect it if you like, but I don't generally. Try not to touch the surface too much to avoid greasy finger marks. At this stage rather than risk damaging the artwork, I use air to remove any dust etc, although it has to be in a relatively dust free environment or the air can cause dust .

For the clear I always use a 2k as it dries rock hard, can be polished like glass and is also petrol proof, U-Pol is usually what I use. Firstly a dust coat, then a heavier coat, then to flatten it out a flow coat. Again follow the flash off times exactly, and try and spray in a good temperature. Too hot and it willl start to dry before it hits the surface giving an orange peel look, and too humid/damp will cause moisture that will make the clear bloom and look cloudy,

Then it is just a case of fine grade wet and dry, and a couple of grades of polishing compound for that glassy finish.

 

[Alan Fogarty]

Hi Alan quite a few questions but I'll give it a go, I'm sure someone else will chip in if I leave anything out, or if they have a better way etc.

If you are rubbing down to bare metal then you want to start with an etch primer to bond with the metal, a mist coat, then a full coat. Then I like to use a high build primer (after rubbing down any previous paint if not at bare metal), I use cellulose rather than 2 pack - just my preference, although 2 pack goes on thicker. (whatever you decide to use, use the same brand for each process to avoid any issues) Depending on how smooth your surface is you can do just one thick coat, but two if not, then as it's thick you can sand out any imperfections (you can dust with another colour and see where you rub through to find high spots, although if you are painting over with white you may not want to do it that way)

For the base coat I would then use a cellulose paint (again my preference although 2 pack might take less coats to cover, I don't like it because of the drying time, or else I'm just no good with it ). Make sure everything is degreased, and then use a tack rag to remove and dust etc, then spray, overlapping by about 50% each pass. As you want white, it may take a few coats to get an even coverage, just follow the instructions of the paint you use regarding drying times and when you can add the next coat - to the letter!

I don't use an intercoat but you can if you want, I just sand the basecoat then apply the art work using Wicked paints, they have an opaque black and a trans (which they call detail black) and a smoke black, which has a kind of grey/brown tinge to it. You can get variation in tone by the amount of reducer you use. However depending on the design if you need solid coverage I would use opaque black. For varying intensities, tones, and detail then use the trans (detail) black, then if needed mix with trans white for greys.

The wiping you see used in vids between coats of artwork are for solvent based paints which if you are using water based paints is going to be no good. I never clean anything at the artwork stage, unless its a bit of overspray which will just come off with water. You can use a transparent base (which is basically just the paint carrier without pigment) as an intercoat between layers of art to protect it if you like, but I don't generally. Try not to touch the surface too much to avoid greasy finger marks. At this stage rather than risk damaging the artwork, I use air to remove any dust etc, although it has to be in a relatively dust free environment or the air can cause dust .

For the clear I always use a 2k as it dries rock hard, can be polished like glass and is also petrol proof, U-Pol is usually what I use. Firstly a dust coat, then a heavier coat, then to flatten it out a flow coat. Again follow the flash off times exactly, and try and spray in a good temperature. Too hot and it willl start to dry before it hits the surface giving an orange peel look, and too humid/damp will cause moisture that will make the clear bloom and look cloudy,

Then it is just a case of fine grade wet and dry, and a couple of grades of polishing compound for that glassy finish.

Hi Squishy


Many thanks for taking the time to reply, I really appreciate it being a complete novice and all. I don’t want to go and waste money and time buy the wrong products and just getting frustrated with it all and then just giving up! As I previously mentioned I live in south Korea so getting the items I want it will be better to buy in bulk to a certain extent rather than 2 oz bottles.

Anyway, just to clarify a few things:

1. All panels are either fiber glass or GRP so no bare metal on this project. So, what high build primer (cellulose) should I use, Wicked Createx ? Also, if my base colour is white, do I use a white high build primer?

2. What grade of wet and dry do you recommend for the different sanding processes? What about polishing compound (Createx ?) Is it best to polish by hand or machine?

3. What product do you recommend for degreasing?

4. Can you give me details on a Wicked Createx base white ( ice white in colour ) I am reading that you use opaque wicked colours for base coats, is that correct?

5. Who make the top coat clear 2k that you mention?

As I say again, I am most appreciative of your time and experience with helping get started here! Thank you so much!

Kindest regards

Alan

 

[jagardn]

So what you are really saying is Ford vs Chevy

I still prefer my Airbrushes in the same order I like my cars. German, Japanese, then American.

 

[Alan Fogarty]

Hi

can anyone tell me which is the best U-pol clear coat, either 2.1 VOC Compliant Water Clearcoat Kit, Fast Dry 4:1, S2087V OR
Universal Urethane Clearcoat Kit, Standard Dry 4:1

many thanks

Alan