Airbrush advice,Sotar 20/20 or?

[smurfORnot]

Hello everyone!

I am from Europe, but I have friend visiting the USA, and I might try to use this opportunity to grab myself some new airbrush, because I see there are quite a lot of deals available in US,opposed to Europe.
I have some cheap Chinese ab that came with my compressor, and I have learned how to use it more or less well for basecoating and airbrushing coats on my Alpha legion 30k. And more or less it works fine for that job, but I can't really shade too much nor do any fine work on models since spray line is simply to big...
I ain't too rich, so I can't really spend 200$+ on airbrush. But I see that Badger Sotar 20/20-2F can be found below 100$ on amazon, and has good reviews for this kind of money. Do you maybe know or think there is some better brush or deal than Sotar in this price grade?

Thanks a lot!

 

[Squishy]

Hi smurfORnot ! Firstly people will want to give you advice, however it's a bit difficult without knowing a bit more background info. Please pop in to the introduction section and tell us more about yourself, your set up, general equipment what paints you use etc, and what type of painting you are into. Also if you give a rough indication of where you are from (and where you are visiting in the states) folks will have a better idea of where to refer you for supplies, and deals etc.

I have no experience with the sotar, however I have heard good things, and any branded brush will be infinitely better than the chinese one you have now. As an Iwata fan I would recommend you look at the Iwata HP-CS which is an all round brush, good for slightly larger coverage, but also capable of really very fine detail, without being a specific detail brush - and a totally reliable work horse. It is a lot of brush for the money, and a lot cheaper than some of the dedicated detail brushes. The self centering nozzle, and one piece trigger mechanism make it much less fiddly too. But I am biased - I love that brush, it's pretty popular though.

Hopefully someone can give you more advice about the sotar in particular, and once people know what your airbrushing goals are may have other recommendations too, plus I know some stores in the US have vouchers to print out which can save even more money, so it's possible you may be able to afford more than you think.

 

[smurfORnot]

tnx!

I made thread here:
http://www.airbrushforum.org/threads/hello-from-croatia.15258/#post-225480

 

[Nessus]

I use a SOTAR. It's a detail-oriented brush, rougher around the edges and fussier to clean than my other brushes, but it performs well as a detail brush. Not a good beginner brush, but a good detail brush.

It's hard to say if it's good for you without knowing specifically what you're wanting to use it for. It reads like you're painting gaming minis. If that's the case, then:

What the SOTAR would be good for:
Shading
Highlighting
Weathering
Freehand detail like scale graffiti

What it's not so good for:
Priming
Solid base colors

You can technically do the latter with it, but it'll be very inefficient due to the low spray volume, narrow spray pattern, and small color cup. You'd need to do a lot of spraying to get full coverage on anything more than a single figure. You'll also have to thin most paints by at least 1/2 to make them work smoothly with the tiny nozzle diameter, and thinning primers is usually not desirable (thinning weakens the binder, which lowers adhesion, so it's kind of defeating the point of primer to thin it).

It's not a brush I'd recommend as a solo "does everything" brush. I use mine in combination with an Iwata HP-TH: the TH for priming and base colors, the SOTAR for shading and detailing. If I had to get a single "does everything" brush for under 100 USD, I'd say maybe a Badger 360 with the needle/nozzle of a Badger Anthem (the Anthem, Patriot, and 360 are all variations on the same brush, so the parts are interchangeable).

However, if you're Chinese brush works well enough for priming and other broad coverage and masking-type stuff, then the SOTAR is a good buy. Then you'd have two brushes that are specialized to their respective roles, giving you better range than a single "jack of all trades" brush.

If you get one, expect to go through a learning period with it. It handles very well, but is relatively exacting when it comes to paint viscosity, so you'll have to do some relearning with your reductions.

 

[smurfORnot]

I use a SOTAR. It's a detail-oriented brush, rougher around the edges and fussier to clean than my other brushes, but it performs well as a detail brush. Not a good beginner brush, but a good detail brush.

It's hard to say if it's good for you without knowing specifically what you're wanting to use it for. It reads like you're painting gaming minis. If that's the case, then:

What the SOTAR would be good for:
Shading
Highlighting
Weathering
Freehand detail like scale graffiti

What it's not so good for:
Priming
Solid base colors

You can technically do the latter with it, but it'll be very inefficient due to the low spray volume, narrow spray pattern, and small color cup. You'd need to do a lot of spraying to get full coverage on anything more than a single figure. You'll also have to thin most paints by at least 1/2 to make them work smoothly with the tiny nozzle diameter, and thinning primers is usually not desirable (thinning weakens the binder, which lowers adhesion, so it's kind of defeating the point of primer to thin it).

It's not a brush I'd recommend as a solo "does everything" brush. I use mine in combination with an Iwata HP-TH: the TH for priming and base colors, the SOTAR for shading and detailing. If I had to get a single "does everything" brush for under 100 USD, I'd say maybe a Badger 360 with the needle/nozzle of a Badger Anthem (the Anthem, Patriot, and 360 are all variations on the same brush, so the parts are interchangeable).

However, if you're Chinese brush works well enough for priming and other broad coverage and masking-type stuff, then the SOTAR is a good buy. Then you'd have two brushes that are specialized to their respective roles, giving you better range than a single "jack of all trades" brush.

If you get one, expect to go through a learning period with it. It handles very well, but is relatively exacting when it comes to paint viscosity, so you'll have to do some relearning with your reductions.

this is exactly I need one for! Priming and base colors are still done just fine with 2 brushes I have now, and I don't need expensive brush for those purposes.
Did you have to order some special adapters or hose for Sotar? I have whole kit and 2 -3 different hozes from my current setup. This more or less: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AIRBRUSH-...704619?hash=item2107bc582b:g:msIAAOSwCQNWgk2a and some extra bits with that.

 

[Nessus]

You would probably need an adapter. This, or this (same thing, just different makers). Most of the Chinese brushes I've seen use the same size fitting as Iwata brushes. In fact I think most brands use that type of fitting. I think Badger and Paasche are the only ones who use their own non-standard fittings.

Or depending on how you like to set things up, you could get a Badger hose instead. I like to connect my brushes directly to the hose without quick connectors or grip filters, as I prefer pen-like ergonomics over pistol grip ergonomics, so for me using a Badger hose for my SOTAR is better than using an adapter, as it results in the most streamlined stem. Badger's fitting is much smaller than the Iwata-style one, so an adapter + Iwata-sized hose end bulks up the connection point a lot compared to using a Badger hose.

Also most Chinese brushes sets come with braided hoses, and the thin black hoses made by Badger and Iwata are IMO way better. Much lighter, thinner, and more flexible.

If you have a quick connector on your hose and prefer to use that, you can get a Badger "male" connector instead of using an adapter. Quick connectors are standardized, so regardless of what fitting sizes or brands the two parts are respectively, the male/female connector parts will still connect with each other.

One thing I really should have mentioned before: make sure you have a source for Badger parts before deciding to go through with this. Local or online, as long as you can get them without having to make another trip out of the country or anything like that. You don't want to have to shelve your new brush if a needle or nozzle happens to get damaged. The SOTAR sold through Amazon comes with a spare needle, but not a spare nozzle.

 

[smurfORnot]

From what I am reading, it's really hard to use acrylics with Sotar 2020 to usable level, like vallejo or citadel, and . Since what I get from reading, you need to really really thin it down, and then they can become too watery to go on plastic model. This might be deal breaker for sotar for me, since 95% of my paints are vallejo/citadel acrylics. -.-

 

[Madbrush]

From what I am reading, it's really hard to use acrylics with Sotar 2020 to usable level, like vallejo or citadel, and . Since what I get from reading, you need to really really thin it down, and then they can become too watery to go on plastic model. This might be deal breaker for sotar for me, since 95% of my paints are vallejo/citadel acrylics. -.-

If you want to do fine detail you have to thin every paint down and drop your pressure, the finer your nozzle the finer it will have to be, it's impossible to control fine work with thick paint at 40 psi no matter what paint you use, and this applies to every single brush, I've only ever used vallejo candies and I had a job getting those through my Neo with its 0.35 nozzle even at 50:50 thinning, if you apply a mat base to whatever you are painting you can still paint it with really thin paint but your air pressure is crucial to avoid spidering with thinner paints, if what you are doing is very small you can also use small hairy brushes for detail but you will get the detail you need with an airbrush with a little practice.

Before you throw money away on a brush that might be of no use to you, try practicing with your present brushes with some thinning and drop your pressure to around 10 - 15 psi just to see what you can achieve, I think you will be wasting your money if you don't fully understand how it works, there are always different settings of thinning and pressure for different types of work and all of us have to abide by what works, vallejo paints are very thick by nature compared to most airbrush specific paints so for airbrushing they usually always require thinning unless we happen to be blasting bigger areas at high pressure.

Play around with what you have now to see what works best for you.

 

[Nessus]

Madbrush is right. Any detail oriented brush will require thinning, even with paint formulated specifically for airbrushes. In fact in my experience, even a 3.5 nozzle requires most paints to be thinned to some degree in order to spray smoothly. This is not an acrylic-specific "problem", it's just a function of pigment particle size and carrier viscosity in relation to the nozzle size, and is common with most paints regardless of chemistry. The only paints that can maybe spray OK unthinned from waht I've read/seen seem to be airbrush inks and rewetable airbrush illustration paints like Com-Art or EFX.

I've never used Vallejo, but from what I've read over the years, it kind of has a rep for poor adhesion anyway. I have used Citadel/GW paints, and they are definitely formulated for regular brush painting, not airbrushing, and would need thinning to spray well regardless.

But all is not lost. You can still reduce your paints without damaging them by using a clear acrylic media instead of just a solvent thinner. Solvents weaken the binder, but an acrylic media is just adding more binder, so as long as the media is a near-watery viscosity, you can use that to reduce your paints quite a lot without having to worry. You may end up having to add a little solvent to push it over the last bit, but since you've reduced with media to start, you're only actually thinning very little (reducing with media is "extending", reducing with solvent is "thinning").

Liquitex and Golden both make general purpose airbrush media for acrylic paints, which a little googling confirms are compatible with both Vallejo and Citadel paints. So a single bottle of either should keep you in business for a good while.

Vallejo makes an "airbrush thinner" for their paints, but word of mouth is hit-and-miss, with some folks saying that Liquitex or Golden media works better. It does appear to be compatible with Citadel paints though, so like the above, you can use one bottle for both. Major difference between it and the Liquitex/Golden media, from what I little can tell reading around, is that the Vallejo has a much higher solvent amount. This would make it more ratio-sensitive, causing a sharp increase in adhesion problems if one over-reduces with it just a little.

The ultimate cheap option is acrylic floor polish, which many modelers and painters still call "Future", even though that brand name no longer exists. It works well as an extender with many paints, but I haven't tested it with Vallejo or Citadel myself. Main practical differences I've found between it and the Liquitex/Golden stuff is that it adds a lot of gloss to paints, and cures a lot slower.

BTW, I'm a fellow modeler, and that's what I use my SOTAR for. Though I don't use Vallejo or Citadel myself, I've had consistently good results with the above using Testors Aztek, Golden High-Flow, and Tamiya paints. These days I mostly use Golden airbrush media to extend, and distilled water to thin.

 

[Mr. Magoo]

I was advised by Badger that the Sotar is best used at 5-10 psi. I can barely get any paint thru it at that rate.

 

[jagardn]

I was advised by Badger that the Sotar is best used at 5-10 psi. I can barely get any paint thru it at that rate.

If expecting any level of detail out of that small of a nozzle, I wouldn't use anything but an airbrush specific paint. Even with using the right paint, it generally has to be reduced a lot, especially at 5-10psi. Even a Micron won't spray at those pressures with the wrong reduction ratios.

 

[AndreZA]

@jagardn is right. At that pressure it will basically be coloured water/reducer you are spraying.

 

[patricks]

I would stick to a brush/ brand which had parts availible locally.
If you get a brush and need to Order every Part in the US it makes it An expensive brush.