Chinese copy.. a noobs PoV

L

littlerick

Guest
Before i got my airbrush gear i did a lot of research.... Now I know EVERYBODY, who is any good advises branded gear. I agree, without question they are right.

However, after pricing up the advice, it worked out to be quite a bit more than I had... So, I went with a cheap kit, 2 no-name ab's and a 3ltr tanked compressor. I tried the brushes, and found that unless i strip n clean every 10 mins, they were $%*^.

I looked at the NEO by Iwata, around £45. Then come across a Veda 180, its a cheap and maybe bad copy of a Iwata costing £200+. Looking into it more I found mixed reviews and it seemed like a gamble on if you got a good one or not! Looking into the NEO also got similar reviews.

I purchased the Veda about 6 weeks ago now and have used it most days to make a mess on paper. I'm a complete noob as the title suggests, so i dont know any better at the moment, but, I can get a line as thin as hair and also a decent flow of paint. I can wash it out change colour and it'll spray away again without hassle. The Veda 180 cost me £21 and I dont expect it to give me a lifetime of hassle free use, but parts are available and cheap. So if anyone is like me and just wants to have a go n see how it pans out, it may be worth a look.

I'll probably get a better ab in time and look back and think "what a noob" but thats where i'm at right now and just thought I would share it.
 
It's kind of a double edged sword. I understand that you don't want to plop down a ton of money on something you may not enjoy or be good at. The problem is though often times people will give up because airbrushing just seems impossible, when the fault lies in the cheap airbrush usually. It's a bit of a shame that you have to go higher quality just to be able to perform. Then the funny part is once you master it, you can modify those cheap ones to work pretty good usually lol.
 
Yes. like i say its a step up from the noname garbage, maybe if i can do a couple of average bits of work with it it'll be worth a step up.. Looking at the Harder and Steenback models as they seem reasonable prices. I do have a Devilbiss Autograph 63, it doesn't seem to work as it should though.
 
You'll probably find that all your Devibiss needs is a good service and the the right paint with the right thinning, but I would let a pro do that.

I started with four no name brushes for the same reason as yourself, I managed to get three out of the four to work reasonably well and almost everything in my gallery was done with those brushes, I also have a Neo and have never had a problem with that, but like IM I had quite a bit of experience with conventional spray equipment which is more or less the same principal so tuning my brushes was never a problem.

I now have a middle range Iwata (around 170 GBP) and to be honest I don't even want to touch the other brushes any more, again as IM states, many give up without a fight after using cheap stuff they don't know much about, the one brush I couldn't get to work din't work because it was never going to work and had nothing to do with my ability or inability to make it work, I kept it for parts for the others which where quickly employed.

The problem with cheap brushes isn't only that they sometimes won't work, it's also that if they do they don't do so for long, the seals are substandard and will soon let you down, no harm in what your doing if it works for you, but I would still start saving for the real McCoy in the meantime.

If you still want budget you could go for the Ultra from H&S which is around the same price as the Neo which is not an Iwata but a licensed cheapy with their name on.

I personally wouldn't recommend to anyone to buy cheapies for whatever reason, if yours works it works because you where lucky, unfortunately a very high percentage of people are not so lucky and they would take pleasure in blaming you when it all goes tits up, as our very learned tutor always says, "you get what you pay for"

I can tell you that when you have a top brand name in your hand, the first thing that you notice is that you can actually feel the quality and that's before you even start to paint with it.
 
As already stated by the gentlemen above no name brushes will frustrate you, i have a Neo and i love it plus it came with a five year warranty so if it does balls up your sorted, i used mine for a good 6/7 months before i got a higher spec brush and have never had a problem with it apart from a couple of new nozzles but that was down to me not being careful, i would say take a punt on one
 
I agree with everything said above. However I would not advise getting a Harder and Steenbeck Ultra, that was the first airbrush I ever had and I had nothing but trouble with it. The Cup is loose, it just pushes in and that leaked as well as kept falling out. Also the Aircap doesn't split so you can't expose the needle, you can buy an Evolution needle/air cap that does split but that costs extra. I also had sticky Trigger problems. I also had 2 Veda's neither worked very well, one quickly died and the other still works but I use it for varnishing only.

It wasn't until I eventually got an Iwata Eclipse and Com-Art paint that all my airbrushing started to come together. The difference is beyond words :D:laugh: it just make you happy Ha ha Ha!! lol And then I really started to learn how to spray paint. :thumbsup:
 
There are some that can take a junk brush and do very well and others not good at all, as for brand it is a matter of choice however this is one area that you absolutely get what you pay for. My only suggestion is to buy the absolute best you can afford because having a quality brush can eliminate many of the issues a lot of noobs go through (lesson learned). Paint reductions and media are items that you can be steered to but each is different which is also learned by skill level.
 
I bought a Veda and had no luck. The spray pattern was not great and it wasn't spraying straight. They are pretty hit and miss. To get mine working somewhat consistently, I had to seal every thread with Beeswax and even then, I was just ok. I have a bunch of good brushes and it is night and day.
 
All in the eye of the beholder LOL, for one period in my painting past it was my only working option and did close to two years worth of work with it, it was so no-name it didn't even have a name on it but was one of the best detail guns I have ever had..They can truely sing...at times..and sometimes you get lucky but in most cases thats what it is, they can keep on keeping on with good maintenance and as immortal mentioned, know an airbrush and they can be made into better tools with some spring replacement, some polishing and some care taken, but with every one that works well, the rest of the shipping containers wrth don't :)..My main theory is anything is fine as long as you can easily find replacement parts for it-no harm done or buy two so you have replacements on hand..just in case..I think it is important and not a bad lesson for people to go through as sometimes the early struggle with a no-name brush translates into being able to utilize a good name brush more efficiently when you actually see and appreciate the difference..Good brushes really do produce better paintings but also the hand holding them helps LOL, but best of luck and hope it serves you well..:)
 
Thought i would update this as its been used do do a few bits now.... I found that for going in and making a general picture and shading, suppose you can call it airbrush sketching... It works a treat... Its big let down is the detail... i can make a hair line with it, but its not so smooth as i would like, I have tried different pressure and paint mix, but its just not good enough to pick detail.

I am a noob and it may still be me partly to blame, but it feels like the airbrush to me.. Anyone wanna send me an Iwata to compare :)
 
Had my H&S evolution for a short period now... So a comparison is maybe at hand.... The Veda is for the price a pretty decent airbrush.. in the hands of an artist it would be possible to do good work with it. It is a fiddly bugga when it comes to cleaning, mainly due to the tiny nozzle. At £21 its not a bad brush to see if airbrushing is for you!

The Evolution is a fantastic bit of kit... The quality can be seen and felt on opening the box. The first few times using it was a mission, just getting used to a trigger that worked from the first twitch. It was a tad more expensive than the Veda, was it worth it, maybe the next one or two PP's will answer that one.

In conclusion to anybody "having a go" and having no money to splash out... The Veda is a good start... If you enjoy it... get a good branded airbrush that suits your needs and budget.
 
Tis always a great thing for new peeps to jump in and have a go at airbrushing, one issue though is apparent in your post and likely the reason many of us suggest a brand name gun from day 1. Those with some nouse will perhaps try a cheaper brush realizing its a cheaper brush and don't expect it to be awesome, just to sling some paint with the plan to likely get a better gun when they can afford it..On the other hand it can also chase away many from the hobby due to the difficulties these guns can come with so in essence a double edged sword..When you look at the price of some entry level guns, realistically there not that much more expensive and no doubt you'll soon also want to replace them with something mid to top shelf but may encourage more to take that further step, but your right, some cheap guns can really do well and are getting better and better.
 
Had my H&S evolution for a short period now... So a comparison is maybe at hand.... The Veda is for the price a pretty decent airbrush.. in the hands of an artist it would be possible to do good work with it. It is a fiddly bugga when it comes to cleaning, mainly due to the tiny nozzle. At £21 its not a bad brush to see if airbrushing is for you!

The Evolution is a fantastic bit of kit... The quality can be seen and felt on opening the box. The first few times using it was a mission, just getting used to a trigger that worked from the first twitch. It was a tad more expensive than the Veda, was it worth it, maybe the next one or two PP's will answer that one.

In conclusion to anybody "having a go" and having no money to splash out... The Veda is a good start... If you enjoy it... get a good branded airbrush that suits your needs and budget.

The Evolution is a great brush! I love mine. Having quality equipment can make all the difference. Glad to hear you're happy with it.
 
I'm starting out with an Iwata Eclipse HP-CS and a sample pack of primary regular Createx. Gonna use it up learning gun control then move on to better paint. Have to say I'm glad I started with a good gun. Balanced, shoots beautifully.. this gun will teach this nooby how to shoot paint - eventually... A cheapo gun may not have done that for me. I do need a better compressor. Gonna shop around and wait until I can afford a decent unit. I am an OK hobby artist with other mediums charcoal, acrylic etc. Am really enjoying creating crazy imagery practicing with the ab!
 
I, likewise, started out with a couple of low end brushes.
One was the veda 180, the other was an SCA airbrush [ again, a CHINESE KNOCK-OFF}.
Was able to make reasonable lines, etc, with both.
Then I had a windfall and bought a HP-CS.
What a change that made!
The difference in control, etc. is amazing and the spares aren't too bad either.
Have a feeling something else might be coming my way soon.
 
The thing with newbies and cheap brushes, and I'm speaking from experience here, is that even if you get one that's usable, and you can get something good out of it, until you compare it to a decent brush, you don't know what you're missing out on. It just makes life so much easier, and you get consistancy of performance which makes learning so much easier too. Plus branded ones are built to last. By the time you bought a cheap one, (if it even works properly) replaced parts after a very short time sometimes, or even as I did decided by the time I replaced parts, I could just by another one. (which I did, and which also didn't last). By the time I had done all that, I could have just got a good quality low end branded brush. It's probably better to save up the money and buy decent from the start if you can.
 
I'm the other end of the spectrum than Squishy, I enjoy working on things and making them better.

I found a cmc + knockoff and with some work, tools and a bit of know how I have an excellent brush, no problems and haven't had to replace anything but an o-ring which I switched out for teflon tape.

I didn't know how good, as I had nothing to compare, so I picked up a Richpen 112 and a Holbein y2 on the cheap and now all are within a percent or two of each other.

I still don't know how they compare to a Micron and may never but the brushes I have far exceed my current artistic ability.

While I'm sure the high end pro's benefit from the top of the line brushes, don't discount the knockoffs if you have the ability to do the finishing work to make the brush a champ.

Jim
 
IMO It still depends on the quality of the knock off, (and it is pot luck), the machining inside, whether it's good, sooth and well finished, or had scores and burrs inside (as my second knock off did which meant parts would never seat properly and air would get back into the cup), crossed threads etc, a bad valve on the first one I bought, the cup not being centered on the top of the brush, the trigger mechanism had burrs so was jerky, and had poor springs, poor alignment and centering, The metal used for the needle and nozzle was so soft on both the ones I had, that even the gentlest of cleaning damaged them. Some things are easily fixable with a little know how, and some not so much like poor machining, and alignment issues - well, for me anyhow LOL! With the experience I have now I could maybe have made a usable one out of the two with some time and a few spares - usable but probably not great. At the time I had spent money on brushes and parts, which was wasted, as I didn't end up with a gun that worked properly, and then ended up shelling out for a better brush anyway. I just think a decent lower end branded brush from the start, will last forever if well maintained and save money in the long run. And a lot of people give up on abing, getting frustrated, not realising the brush is the problem.

You could get a perfectly usable knock of though, some people love them, but again it is luck, and I still maintain reliability, consistancy and longevity of parts will not be as good. But if like Jim you aren't phased by some of the issues you may have, are happy to take the chance and are able to make those changes and tweaks if possible, then it could be a good option. Personally, I just recommend getting the best you can afford. If that's a knock off, then fine, but another thing to consider is that a branded brush will also have resale value if looked after in the unlikely event a newbie decides airbrushing isn't for them.
 
I'm the other end of the spectrum than Squishy, I enjoy working on things and making them better.

I found a cmc + knockoff and with some work, tools and a bit of know how I have an excellent brush, no problems and haven't had to replace anything but an o-ring which I switched out for teflon tape.

I didn't know how good, as I had nothing to compare, so I picked up a Richpen 112 and a Holbein y2 on the cheap and now all are within a percent or two of each other.

I still don't know how they compare to a Micron and may never but the brushes I have far exceed my current artistic ability.

While I'm sure the high end pro's benefit from the top of the line brushes, don't discount the knockoffs if you have the ability to do the finishing work to make the brush a champ.

Jim

I still have my cheapies and still use the ones that work, but after having the real McCoy in my hand now I wouldn't buy them again, yours works works because you can make it it work, but not everyone has the patience, skill or even the will to do that so the best way is buy decent equipment from the start if it's affordable, even if i didn't have my Iwata, I would still never ever recommend to anyone to buy cheap brushes, many give up in the first months because of the stuff.

If it's not affordable to buy new I would recommend a second hand brand name followed buy a good service and tune up than any cheapy.
 
I think every one should get a cheapie brush for the first month at least could save some money, my first cheapie last all of five mins as i stripped it down to see how it work and sheared the nozzle of when re-assembling it, damaged the nozzles of all three of my cheapies, then again ive replaced the nozzle on my neo 3 times and once on my micron, took me a while to learn to be gentle lol
 
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