E'tac: EFX, or Private Stock?

[Nessus]

I'm considering getting a starter set of E'tac paints, since they seem to be the most highly rated here, so far as I've gathered. However I'm not sure which type to get.

I'm a modelmaker primarily, so this would be mostly for hard surface work atop a primer. Probably won't be doing things like scraping or erasing, so I don't really need that aspect of EFX. Reweattabilty might have uses, but mostly might be a liability, depending on how loose it gets, and whether it can be fixed effectively with a sealer.

My main question is how they perform relative to each other in terms of things like tip dry, reduction needs, that sort of thing. All other concerns aside, which one is better just in terms of sprayabilty? I realize the margin if any may be slim, and regardless, if the legends are true, either one is likely to be better than anything I've been using already (Tamiya acrylic, Aztek acrylic, Golden Hi-Flow), but I want to make sure I get the "best" one.

 

[haasje dutchairbrush]

First of, there is no "best one" if you go over airbrush forums you'll see there are as many oppinions about paint as there are people airbrushing .

Any paint used will take a while to get accustomed to (and thats more than just a quick test) and I do have the strong impression that a lot of people stick to one type of paint just because the "new" paint doesn't react as they are acustommed to.

In regard to E'tac, the private stock leans more to application on custom work and thus in theory should fill your need best. That being said I (for some people I'll probably be cursing now ) have used EFX as well as Private stock for a long time together (bought wrong bottles a couple of times ) and to be honest didn't notice any difference in eresability etc (I did switch to efx only just to be sure though ).

On a side note mixing both might be a bad idea, I didn't have troubles painting one on top of the other though

E'tac though is paint that is mainly meant for "fine art" (paintings), so it might be very good (I'll never say best ) for that I'd seriously think about if its also one of the better options for your application when there are paints like Vallejo avaliable which are made specificly for models.

If you are set on using E'tac though I think Private stock would be best as the application it's meant for comes close to what you do, as to how the handle "airbrush wise" I couldn't tell you a difference between EFX and Private stock though (if there is it's not big enough for me to notice)

 

[Nessus]

Thanks. I know "best" is a matter of opinion. I didn't make any disclaimers to that effect because I thought it was a given. I was merely talking about the sense I gotten through aggregation of many comments in many threads. Different people have different preferences, but E'Tac was the the name that kept consistently coming up as the top in terms of tip dry and lack of needed reduction. Since I'm still new and haven't really found a paint I'm willing to settle down with, I'm looking mostly for these sort of verifiable properties more than subtleties or elements of subjective appeal.

I've been trying out different brands from the stuff can get locally, but they all have their issues, so I'm always looking for something better. Pretty much everything I've tried, even the stuff specifically formulated for airbrushing, has needed to be reduced 50-80% to spray what I'd consider well, but such reduction tends to kill opacity, so an opaque line that actually lives up to the hype of being sprayable right out of the bottle (or near enough so that opacity isn't overly compromised) is attractive. E'tac and Comart stand out as the ones most consistently cited in that regard, even among those who prefer other paints, with people who've tried both saying E'tac is better in the tip-dry aspect.

I'm not worried about the distinction between art paints and model paints. TBH, the only real distinction I can think off is that model paints come in premixed colors, wheras with art paints I'd have to mix those colors myself, which I am not averse to. I'm not too worried about durability: people paint car panels and bike helmets with these, so it seems like good surface prep and sealing should be the deciding factor there.

 

[AndreZA]

The only way you will get any paint to be very opaque and spray straight out of the bottle is when you spray at high pressure. I spray my EFX un-reduced at about 30psi and I still get grainy edges. I only do this when I need quick coverage otherwise I reduce the living daylight out of it.

 

[Nada]

I have not taken a swing at etac yet. And it is on my short list. But from reading your posts.

Com art. I love it but i would never paint models with it. Not to mention coverage is not great.
It is an awesome fine art paint and that is it.

Golden high flow. Good coverage, fairly durable. I use wicked w 100 reducer with it, and have tested its durability with such. It has far less tip dry than a lot of paints and near nil using w 100 reducer.
Its biggest drawback would be price but airbrush paints go a long way.

You can spend a lot of money searching for paint nirvana. Lord know i have hundreds if not 1000 dollars worth of paints here since starting. I do paint on just about everything however.

I use wicked for auto type stuff
Regular createx for t shirts
Com art sometimes
Golden high flows a lot lately
Createx illustration is nice paint for art..
Auto air for my sealer line up.
And have some holbien i would use more if i had more colors.

Learn the paint you have for a while. Only switch if your paint is not doing something you need it to. Unless you have lots of income and enjoy trying new things.

 

[Nessus]

What would you say makes Comart undesirable for modeling?

Golden Hi-flow would be very attractive to me if I could get it to work right. Maybe it's because the color I got to test it was black, but it has the worst tip dry of any of the paints I've been trying. Color strength and opacity are very nice, even when thinned, but man, does it gob up on the needle fast. Also has grainy atomization that doesn't go away unless I reduce the heck out of it. Can't get hardly any lines down before the tip clogs, and when I go to wipe the buildup off the needle, it's like a big solid disk of paint, rather than the gritty coating I get with most other paints. I've tried reducing it with both water and alcohol (ethanol), and adding retarder (Golden) to it, but to little avail. The only thing that seems to make a non-negligible difference is the amount of reduction.

Part of why I wanted to go out of my way try whatever is tops in terms of tip dry is actually to get a better sense of the behavior range I should expect in general. Since I'm still not 100% on reductions and mixes, I have a lot of uncertainty about how much of what I'm experiencing is the actual hard limitations of a given paint, and how much is me not handling it right. I have no clear idea of what I should expect, so I feel like I'm fumbling in the dark.

Best thing would be in-person instruction, but no such thing is available where I live. So the next best think I can think of is a paint that at least has a consistent reputation for being at the end of the bell curve in a specific area. It doesn't matter whether it meets some kind of hypothetical ideal, or even if I'm successful with it in terms of actual painting, I just need a benchmark to help me calibrate what I'm doing.

 

[Nada]

Black and white will always be your worst two colors.

Com art is very thin and just not very durable when applied to plastics especially. It also is rewettable so it is possible to blow througb an earlier layer of paint making a new one. It dries pretty slowly so even more likely you will paint wet on wet on plastics. And it can easily be reactivated when clearcoating, even days later. It is just designed to be an illustration paint. At that it is one of the best

Im all for trying other paints out if budget allows. I merely am putting off gettinf etac because i have to order it. And i know myself if im ordering it. I wont just buy a couple of bottles to try.

As i said i use w100 reducer with golden. I find its white to be very friendly to use. To find the limit of the paint start out over reduced like to where you get paint migration. Then add paint back til it sprays well. Reductions and pressures require a feel, it can chagne from day to day. That is why it is soooooooo hard to learn. Noone can say eeduce this much and spray at this pressure. .

 

[Squishy]

I'm not an E'tac user, although I have tried it. I got a free sample of Private Stock - which I think would be best for you if you want to try it, as I believe it is more of an all rounder surface wise, and can be used in a variety of ways, while the EFX is more inclined to fine art (I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, as I say I don't use it) - and I thought it was very nice, just not nice enough for me to pay out a bunch of cash to change from what I am familiar with and comfortable using.

I think you are doing the right thing, find a popular paint, that suits your needs, and then just get to know it very well. Spend some time finding your sweet spot, experiment drop by drop, adjusting the pressure as you go, until you find your paint is flowing pefectly. Then when you think you have it, try a final adjustment or two to see if it makes a difference (I only say that because when I started playing with my reduction, I thought I had got it down, then realsied after a few weeks when I made a mistake mixing it, that I could get it better). This will then become your base mixture, which you can then adjust as needed depending on the colour used, weather/humidity etc.

 

[beanpoleuk]

I use both Etac EFX and Etac Private Stock, for your needs I would certainly recommend the ETac Private stock, plus the AG2050 modifier which not only give the paint and extra 'hardness' it will also act as an intercoat or protective coat before clear. The Etac flow really well , the private stock white is the best white I have found for flow when mixed 1:1 with the AG modifier .

This is of course only from my own experience which is with ComArt, ETAC and Daler Rowney FW

 

[Ronald art]

I only use etac paints and if I work on hard surfaces I wont use any water to reduce the paint no matter if it is PS or EFX and I heat set between every layer .
you can change the properties of PS and EFX by either mixing the both lines or use the transparent base form the efx line with the PS : this will make the paint more transparent but also less strong in case you want to erase , the PS base can be used to make the EFX stronger the AG2050 will do the same to the EFX

 

[Nessus]

Thanks for all the advice.

Is heat curing mandatory to achieve a proper cure with AG20/50, or does it just accelerate curing? If mandatory, what sort of temperature & time is needed? My substrates would involve lots of plastics (mostly polystyrene, sometimes ABS, PVC, or PETG) and polyurethane resins, so a hair drier would be okay, but a heat gun would cause melting and/or warping.

 

[Ronald art]

Thanks for all the advice.

Is heat curing mandatory to achieve a proper cure with AG20/50, or does it just accelerate curing? If mandatory, what sort of temperature & time is needed? My substrates would involve lots of plastics (mostly polystyrene, sometimes ABS, PVC, or PETG) and polyurethane resins, so a hair drier would be okay, but a heat gun would cause melting and/or warping.

it is mandatory and a hair dryer is good enough

 

[JV44]

I use both the Private Stock and EFX lines of E'tac.....I would agree with everybody else--go with the PS and use the AG2050 to make it tougher. I haven't tried the PS white mixed with AG2050--there ya go, learn something new every day! I also never thought of using the AG2050 as an intercoat clear to protect layers as you go--thanks beanpoleuk!

 

[splasha]

Hi, Nessus.
Just my 2 bob's worth.
If you're painting plastics [ models, etc ] then I'd go with the PS and the AG2050 reducer.
Tip dry and such are the gremlins we all go to war against, and like you, we're all looking for that Holy Grail of paint.
Having said that, I would like to also say that there are specific purpose made paints that are exactly that - purpose made!
Sure, there are some like E'tac, that try and cover as much ground as they can, and they do a great job for MOST surfaces.
And then there is personal preference - we all have our favourite ' go to ' paint for most things, and there are just as many reasons for them as against them, but that's our choice. [Acrylics and urethanes, as well].
Since you're leaning that way anyway, why not do one in a colour - NOT black - and do something in your old paint an compare the result. There's your winner right there.