Iwata Eclipse Packing OLD style.

[Eric'sTshirts]

I have about ten Iwata Eclipse BCS guns. But they are the OLD style body. That means they have a small set screw behind the air intake valve, on the bottom of the gun (NOT the big screw on the top of a BCR). The second way to know it's the old body style is that the rocker is in TWO parts, not one. So behind the trigger you have a removable rocker (called the auxiliary lever) that goes in front of the Needle Chucking Guide. In a newer style, the Chucking Guide and the Rocker are attached.

SO for the few of you who know about this OLD style of the Eclipse. I got these on eBay for about $100 (for all ten). They work well, but not perfectly. I noticed that they are all missing their packing screw. Someone at Big Airbrush said the these guns are self sealing. Well ... I am not sure. The needle path from air in to out is really large. Bigger than the needle. And Costal lists the 1251 as the packing screw.

So ... what do we think. Are these guns packing less?

Thanks Eric

 

[DaveG]

I do not think the packing screws changed with the chucking guide/aux laver deal - It sounds like you are simply missing the packing screws complete with seal.

 

[Eric'sTshirts]

DaveG, this is what I suspect. That they are all missing packing screws. I am having some difficulty getting new screws in, but I suspect that may be due to paint in the tube. I've prepared all the guns for a good soak in lacker thinner. Removed all the other seals.

 

[Rick Martin]

Dang nice find

 

[Eric'sTshirts]

Rick - it's only a nice find if I can figure out the packing. I have them all soaking in lacker thiner right now (well the shell anyway). We'll see if I can see threads after that. I could not see any threads for backing to screw into. I assumed a 1-251-1 packing screw would work. Maybe there is a lot of gunk in the threads.

 

[basepaint]

If you have one packing screw you should be able to find a Bottoming Tap The same size at the hardware store to run thru to clean the threads out just don't force it or you risk damaging the threads

 

[Vladimir]

I am having some difficulty getting new screws in, but I suspect that may be due to paint in the tube. I've prepared all the guns for a good soak in lacker thinner. Removed all the other seals.

I would try paint remover. It works 100% and will remove all dried any paint inside. Cleaning brushes are also good addition here.
After the procedure - thinner for final cleaning.
If using only the thinner, you'd do that for a long time, much longer than using paint remover and I doubt you'd get such the results with the thinner as you'd get with paint remover.
I've cleaned all hopeless ABs and sprayguns using this method (used not by me). In the end you'll have perfectly clean tools.
Using paint remover avoid any contact with the skin! DO WEAR GLOVES!

 

[Eric'sTshirts]

Vladimir, thanks so much. Tip about paint remover will try. And basepaint, the idea of a bottoming tap is a great one. I'll try that after the paint remover. Thanks to all. Now I am off to see if the thinner did anything. I hope I can see some threads.

 

[Eric'sTshirts]

After a good cleaning, it seems none of these are tapped for a packing screw. Not really sure what to do.

 

[DaveG]

After a good cleaning, it seems none of these are tapped for a packing screw. Not really sure what to do.

you can try calling coast airbrush and asking advice - they do offer repair service if needed -714-635-5557

or Iwata USA - 503.253.7308

 

[Maple Art]

What is the Date code on them? I have had the older style Eclipse Airbrushes sent in for maintenance and there was a packing screw in them.

un-less you have some type of magnifier that you can see into the body of the airbrush I think it would be near impossible to see the threads in the body - at least I have never been able to see the threads when I look down the body.

If you call iwata ask for Kirk

 

[Mr.Micron]

I have only been able to see those thread using the micro camera we have at work . The camera head and feed wire is about the size of a hair but I think the University paid over 80k for it . I am just lucky I am allowed to use all the equipment in the area I work in.

 

[Eric'sTshirts]

I looked deep into the airbrush and could see no threads. Also, neither of the Iwata backing tools could connect with a packing screw. So I think they are not there. I will try to call costal as suggested.

 

[wickedartstudio]

Very old models used an o ring for the seal. We used to have to change them all the time because automotive paint (mostly lacquer) would eat them up fast. Teflon packing screws came later to solve that issue.

 

[Vladimir]

I looked deep into the airbrush and could see no threads. Also, neither of the Iwata backing tools could connect with a packing screw. So I think they are not there. I will try to call costal as suggested.

It's even strange to hear that Iwata doesn't have needle packing. I thought that old Iwata models had rubber O-rings, but they had. From what you say it seems they also didn't have it.
Old airbrushes didn't have any needle packing, at least all Wold, Thayer and Chandler before 60s (or 70s?) didn't have it. Paasche I have from 40s also does not have any needle packing either.

 

[DaveG]

It's even strange to hear that Iwata doesn't have needle packing. I thought that old Iwata models had rubber O-rings, but they had. From what you say it seems they also didn't have it.
Old airbrushes didn't have any needle packing, at least all Wold, Thayer and Chandler before 60s (or 70s?) didn't have it. Paasche I have from 40s also does not have any needle packing either.

I do not think it will turn out that the brushes were made without packing.... just that they are in such a state of disrepair that it is missing.

 

[Vladimir]

I do not think it will turn out that the brushes were made without packing.... just that they are in such a state of disrepair that it is missing.

I also couldn't even imagine that, until got first old airbrush But for Iwata it's quite a surprise... As it seems that they started manufacturing (selling) airbrushes when the needle sealing was already used.
Looks like even modern Wold airbrushes are manufactured without the seal. It's rather strange I don't have any new Wold, but from part list on their site I can see no needle packing and needle screw. Just like that was in 1890s and early 1900s.

 

[Eric'sTshirts]

wickedartstudio I think may be correct, looking at old PDFs of the Iwata HP-BCS you see a ring, not a screw for packing. But I think Vladimir is also correct, really old Iwata HP-BSC were "self packing" as the Vega 2000's are (the ones made by Thayer and Chandler). Russ from BigAirbrush has a maintenance video where he says that the Iwata HP-BCS is self packing. So I may have REALLY old guns. But they work! I just not getting a good seal at the front. I really need to crank a bit on the head. Though maybe it's leaking back and packing might help. But, otherwise they all work.

 

[DaveG]

wickedartstudio I think may be correct, looking at old PDFs of the Iwata HP-BCS you see a ring, not a screw for packing. But I think Vladimir is also correct, really old Iwata HP-BSC were "self packing" as the Vega 2000's are (the ones made by Thayer and Chandler). Russ from BigAirbrush has a maintenance video where he says that the Iwata HP-BCS is self packing. So I may have REALLY old guns. But they work! I just not getting a good seal at the front. I really need to crank a bit on the head. Though maybe it's leaking back and packing might help. But, otherwise they all work.

Can you share a link with me that has an old schematic of the Eclipse? I don't think the Eclipse model was introduced until well after the HP series, and they already had needle packing seals incorporated.

 

[DaveG]

I got this word back from an employee of Iwata that I was able to speak with -

"...The first edition of the BCS brush did not have a needle packing. It does'nt even have the threading to put one in. Most of the brushes were designed in mind. The viscosity and the adhesive of the textile paint would actually form a ring of dried paint that suffice for an o-ring"