Micron vs. Infinity

[pcDoc]

Hi all,

Just out of interest I would like to have your opinion on which gun you would recoment me under the below conditions. The Micron CM-B or the Infinity.

I currently use an EVO 2in1 and I´m pretty happy with it. When it comes to really fine details I do get mixed results. Sometime it works, somtimes not that good. For sure this is also because of my missing experience and the big breaks in between. (I normally do 1-3 paintings a year mainly during the colder time of the year, and only for privat purposes). But I sometimes can´t get rid of the feeling that it is at least partially due to the airbrush. But again, only when it comes to really fine details.

Even though I don´t do airbrushing too much compared to most of you, I thought about getting a second gun in adition to the Evo. The aim of that second gun is to give me a bit more controll and hopefully more consistent results when it comes to fine details.

I know that everybody is really happy with their Micron and I read more than once that it is worth the money. On the other hand I couldn´t find much negativ on the Infinity when it comes to fine details, just the higher airpressure needed. There was just one comparisson between those two guns which caught my attention. The conclusion was that you can get the same fine detailes and quality results with both guns, but the Micron makes it much easier to get them. Can anyone explain why it is easier?

I got some spareparts which the EVO and the Infinity share, which would be handy to not have another set of spareparts. I would high likly buy the 2in1 version, so would have a spare 0,4 needl/nozzle for the Evo. I do very much like the easy way to clean the H&S guns and I cannot complain about any quality issues. The Iwata costs twice the price of the Infinity.

Now, after reading that, what do you think? Is the Micron under those circumstances really worth double the price of an Infinity?

And a bonus question: What exactly is the difference in the trigger action between the Evo and the Infinity that makes it better for fine details? I was often told it is not just the 0,15 needl/nozzle, which would also be available for the Evo.

 

[AndreZA]

The Evolution and the Infinity is mostly the same gun. You will not get better results from one or another. The Micron is easier to use and you need less fidling with paint and you can paint at lower pressure. I'm talking about the side feed SB version now. But if I had either my Infinity or Evolution before I had my Micron, I would not have bothered getting the Micron. And spares are waaaay cheaper but also less robust. I have converted my Evo to a 0.2 and like it very much.

With a few parts you can convert your Evo to an Infinity but I would not bother.

 

[haasje dutchairbrush]

1st off if you have the ability to do thin lines you can do it with any brush. On the risk of sounding arogant I had to prove this last week to a student that uses an evo 0,2. I could get (took some fidling with reduction) as thin a line out of it as with my CM-SB. That being said it wasn't easy and I wouldn't feel realy confident if I had to do a lot of detail work with it on an actual painting .

An Infinity or CM-SB does make putting down that fine detail a lot easier and will certainly help if you can do fine detail but have troubles doing fine detail consistantly (in general that means you are almost there skill wise and in that case one of these guns might just make that little bit of difference you need).

As far as I'm aware the stuff the air passes through is a bit diffrent in the infinity (comparing with the evo) which is why it actualy performs at the low air pressure needed for detail (evo just won't atomise nicely at low pressure). I might be proven wrong here though

I've used both the infinity and the CM-SB and they are both great guns for detail work. I do find the CM-SB to be a tad more responsive and easier to work with but to be totaly honest we are talking very small differences here. If I had the choice I'd always choose the CM-SB but I wouldn't start crying if I had to work with an infinity .

Is the micron wothh twice the money? I think that is a question you will have to answer for yourself. Even as a micron fanboy I couldn't in all honesty with a clear concious say that the difference warrants the difference in price as it's just too small. I think you should make the choice base on how much you airbrush and how much spending the money will hurt your wallet. If you spend 8 hours a day painting or have a gazillion monies in the bank go for the micron .

The main selling point of the Cm-SB over the infinity for me would be the side cup and not the difference in performance, but again I couldn't answer if that for you would make the difference in price worth it.

 

[Ronald art]

I think it all comes down to the trigger finger , my friend has the HS evo and kept complaining about not being able to pull fine detail , I gave him my CM SB to see if it would improve his ability to do fine details and he had instant improvement , the reason for this improvement was the way the micron was set up with a soft air valve spring and the needle spring was set to the softest setup . what he liked the most was the trigger reaction of the micron and the lower pressure it needs . I did try the H&S and I can do real fine detail with it but I dont like the way it reacts to the trigger movement , the higher pressure and the fact it isnt a side feed

 

[Mr.Micron]

Only main difference between my .2 Infinity and my .18 CM-C+ is trigger control or I should say a slight lag on the infinity. Both can pull great lines but I have learned how to reduce for the paint I use for each airbrush.
Infinity replacement parts are way cheaper then the Micron but the Micron does atomize a lot finer then the infinity.
But I do use the Micron 80% of the time when I need detail.

 

[OutlawGraphics]

i haven't got a micron, but i have got a infinity, iwata revolution and HP-C+. the infinity is great and all for fine details but i prefer the mechanics of the iwatas and find i almost always go to the HP-C+....it feels nicer and more responsive to me at least

 

[Nessus]

Part longevity has an effect on part cost over the total operational life of the brush. A lot of Iwata brushes have a rep for parts not really wearing out, and only having to be replaced if actively damaged. H&S parts have a rep for being soft and thus prone to wearing out regularly regardless. Even if those reps are somewhat exaggerated, it still might make Iwata parts cheaper in the long run, even if they're more expensive on a per-purchase basis.

I don't know if that rep for part durability on Iwata's part also holds true with the Micron though.

 

[pcDoc]

Thanks all for the quick responses!

The Evolution and the Infinity is mostly the same gun. You will not get better results from one or another.

That is a little conflict to what Haasje wrote. Lower airpressure with good atomisation sounds like an improvement!

As far as I'm aware the stuff the air passes through is a bit diffrent in the infinity (comparing with the evo) which is why it actualy performs at the low air pressure needed for detail (evo just won't atomise nicely at low pressure).

Can someone confirm that?

I've used both the infinity and the CM-SB and they are both great guns for detail work. I do find the CM-SB to be a tad more responsive and easier to work with but to be totaly honest we are talking very small differences here.

In terms of response, do you mean that little clearance in the beginning, when you pull back the trigger on the Infinity, or something else? Could you please also be a bit more specific in which way it is easier to use? For example if you need to pull the trigger further to have the same amount of paint comming out, which would give you more controll? Or is it the smoothness which gives makes it easier to move the trigger to the position you want it to be? Sorry for the stupide question, but I just try to understand what makes the difference.

In anyway I´m happy to hear that the differences are small. Which shouldn´t be the decission yet, but especially looking at the little time I use it and the price difference it´s probably not worth for me to go for the Iwata.

If you spend 8 hours a day painting or have a gazillion monies in the bank go for the micron .

It´s current more 8 hours per month rather than per day!

The main selling point of the Cm-SB over the infinity for me would be the side cup and not the difference in performance, but again I couldn't answer if that for you would make the difference in price worth it.

I thought I saw a conversion kit for the Evo for side feed!? Or was that just the side cup for the bottle-feed version?

I think it all comes down to the trigger finger , my friend has the HS evo and kept complaining about not being able to pull fine detail , I gave him my CM SB to see if it would improve his ability to do fine details and he had instant improvement , the reason for this improvement was the way the micron was set up with a soft air valve spring and the needle spring was set to the softest setup . what he liked the most was the trigger reaction of the micron and the lower pressure it needs . I did try the H&S and I can do real fine detail with it but I dont like the way it reacts to the trigger movement , the higher pressure and the fact it isnt a side feed

Hmm... It is a bit difficult to desribe why I do have problems on fine details, but when I do fine lines I sometimes get a bit more paint at the end of the line when releasing the trigger. It looks like a blocked nozzle, but I cleaned it and even tried a new one. On "normall" lines you wouldn´t even notice it, but on the very fine detail 1-2mm away from the paper you see it and that is a problen not just with doing lines. Also if you what to do very small dots for texture very often I get more paint out of the gut by releasing the trigger than by pulling it! And that is just anoying. I couldn´t get rid of it even after replacing all sealings, the neadle and the nozzle. Playing around a bit with reduced colors and airpressure makes it better, but I cannot really get rid of it. The weird thing is, that it is sometimes almost gone completely, the other day it frustrates me that much that I was close to crash the gun into the whiteboard I´m painting on.

 

[AndreZA]

That is a little conflict to what Haasje wrote. Lower airpressure with good atomisation sounds like an improvement!

Can someone confirm that?

Unless those differences are in the space between the cup and the nozzle, I can not see them. I can certainly not tell the difference between the two.

 

[haasje dutchairbrush]

Unless those differences are in the space between the cup and the nozzle, I can not see them. I can certainly not tell the difference between the two.

its in the part that supplies the air (so not a part we can get to without splitting an airbrush in half ). Like I said this is hear say, I have yet to find pics of the two brushes that actualy are spliced length wise so we can see whats happening inside in regard to airflow.

There has to be a difference between the infinity and evo though as I think its beyond dispute the infinity atomises considerably better than the evo with the same needle/nozzle setup.

 

[haasje dutchairbrush]

Thanks all for the quick responses!

That is a little conflict to what Haasje wrote. Lower airpressure with good atomisation sounds like an improvement!

not sure what the conflict is here . Lower air pressure with good atomisation is always good.


In terms of response, do you mean that little clearance in the beginning, when you pull back the trigger on the Infinity, or something else? Could you please also be a bit more specific in which way it is easier to use? For example if you need to pull the trigger further to have the same amount of paint comming out, which would give you more controll? Or is it the smoothness which gives makes it easier to move the trigger to the position you want it to be? Sorry for the stupide question, but I just try to understand what makes the difference.

Due to the trigger mechanism there tends to be a tad of leaway on H&S airbrushes which is not there with an Iwata so the iwata will react to the slightest movement of the trigger. You do have to get used to an airbrush a bit though and get a feel for it, I hardly hear anycomplaints about this from infinity users. It's hard for me to exactly point out what the difference is (except for atomisation which I do find better with the micron at lower pressures) for me it just "feels" better.

I thought I saw a conversion kit for the Evo for side feed!? Or was that just the side cup for the bottle-feed version?

Never seen that. (which doesn't mean it doesn't exist )

 

[pcDoc]

Part longevity has an effect on part cost over the total operational life of the brush. A lot of Iwata brushes have a rep for parts not really wearing out, and only having to be replaced if actively damaged. H&S parts have a rep for being soft and thus prone to wearing out regularly regardless. Even if those reps are somewhat exaggerated, it still might make Iwata parts cheaper in the long run, even if they're more expensive on a per-purchase basis.

I don't know if that rep for part durability on Iwata's part also holds true with the Micron though.

To be honest I don´t think that should be too much of a problem for the little time it is in use. I probably have more things to replace because of damage I do to it while cleaning or dropping it. But for power user that might well be an argument.

not sure what the conflict is here . Lower air pressure with good atomisation is always good.

The conflict is between what AndreZA and you wrote. He mentioned that it is basically the same airbrush appart from a low number of specific parts, which should not affect the airflow. And you mentioned it atomises better at lower air pressure. Both cannot be true.

I check both manualls and from the recommended airpressure and pressure range both are exactly the same. That means the benefits of the Infinity compared to the evolution are really down to the adjustable needl spring and the quick fix. The later I bought for my Evo, which is sometimes really handy to have.

That is definitely a bit dissapointing, because that makes the Evo Silverline more or less the same airbrush, just missing some minor details, but for 70€ cheaper to get.

It's hard for me to exactly point out what the difference is (except for atomisation which I do find better with the micron at lower pressures) for me it just "feels" better.

Thanks! I think I know what you mean.

Never seen that. (which doesn't mean it doesn't exist )

Just googled a bit, there are 2 ways of doing that:

More expansive: H&S part number 123413 + 218603
Less expansive: H&S part number 123943 + cup

The first way works, but for the second one I´m not sure which cup would work with that adapter. But it will allow you to also the Evo as a bottom-feed with bottles/glasses.

If you buy a new Evo, I would then go for the Evo M which has the side feed by default. In case of the infinity I would go for the Froschin Edition and by the cup for the bottom feed.

Anyway, it sounds a bit like there is no alternative to the Iwata Micron.... Is there another Iwata gun which could do similar details and gives a similar feeling than the micron SB for a lower price?

 

[AndreZA]

Silverline is nickel plated and you pay for the triple chrome coating and the triple seal of the CR+ as well.

I don't use any of the adjusters on my Infinity and that is why I use my evo more. I also replaced all the gold parts with chrome parts so that wear will not be visible.

I must say I am impressed with the HP-B that I bought second hand. After straightening the bent needle it is a great gun. But I will only use it with E'tac paint as it is a pain to clean the nozzle and E'tac is rewetable so it cleans very easy. I think a HP-SB will be good alternative to the CM-SB.

 

[haasje dutchairbrush]

Next time I'm at the airbrush shop I'll ask if I can try an infinity and evo both with a 0.2 in it and see how they atomise at low pressure. I'm not sure if it matters but I've only used the infinity with the 0.15 no clue if that affects atomisation but putting a 0.2 in both should answer that.

 

[AndreZA]

@haasje the correct way is much more complicated. Seeing that most parts are the same, you will have to move those parts to the bits that is not the same. Basically build everything onto a Evolution body and spray and build on to the Infinity and spray. What if the needle in the one is defective. That will affect the results. So same head, needle and nozzle need to be used in both models. Then you can see if there is a difference in the way the air goes through the body, if the triggers are different and if the rear parts affect the spray.

 

[haasje dutchairbrush]

@haasje the correct way is much more complicated. Seeing that most parts are the same, you will have to move those parts to the bits that is not the same. Basically build everything onto a Evolution body and spray and build on to the Infinity and spray. What if the needle in the one is defective. That will affect the results. So same head, needle and nozzle need to be used in both models. Then you can see if there is a difference in the way the air goes through the body, if the triggers are different and if the rear parts affect the spray.

The aim (as far as possible) is to exchange only the front part (the part handling the air) and try to use the same parts for everything else. This got me a bit curious

 

[jagardn]

@haasje the correct way is much more complicated. Seeing that most parts are the same, you will have to move those parts to the bits that is not the same. Basically build everything onto a Evolution body and spray and build on to the Infinity and spray. What if the needle in the one is defective. That will affect the results. So same head, needle and nozzle need to be used in both models. Then you can see if there is a difference in the way the air goes through the body, if the triggers are different and if the rear parts affect the spray.

I personally see no difference between my Evo AL and the Infinity in terms of performance or atomization.
Overall though, I prefer the .2mm over the .15mm setup just because it's a bit more forgiving with reductions, but I can use either pretty effortlessly.

 

[pcDoc]

I personally see no difference between my Evo AL and the Infinity in terms of performance or atomization.
Overall though, I prefer the .2mm over the .15mm setup just because it's a bit more forgiving with reductions, but I can use either pretty effortlessly.

Thanks for that confirmation!

Silverline is nickel plated and you pay for the triple chrome coating and the triple seal of the CR+ as well.

I don´t really see any benefit in having triple chrome instead of nickel to be honest. My classic Evo is nickel too and works perfectly fine for me.

I don't use any of the adjusters on my Infinity and that is why I use my evo more. I also replaced all the gold parts with chrome parts so that wear will not be visible.

Sounds like the Evo is the better choice, especially if you look at the value you get for your money.

I must say I am impressed with the HP-B that I bought second hand. After straightening the bent needle it is a great gun. But I will only use it with E'tac paint as it is a pain to clean the nozzle and E'tac is rewetable so it cleans very easy. I think a HP-SB will be good alternative to the CM-SB.

Maybe I´m spoiled by how easy it is to clean the Evo, but what makes it so hard to clean compared to other guns?

If you compare the HB with the Evo, would you say it is worth switching?

Next time I'm at the airbrush shop I'll ask if I can try an infinity and evo both with a 0.2 in it and see how they atomise at low pressure. I'm not sure if it matters but I've only used the infinity with the 0.15 no clue if that affects atomisation but putting a 0.2 in both should answer that.

I would love to have such an airbrush shop around, where I could try the gun before I buy it, that would make things MUCH easier to decide on! Best case I was allowed to open the box and hold it, but that´s it.

Really great how supportive you (and many others) are here in the forum! I really enjoyed your step-by-steps and I really appreciate your offer to test the Infinity and the Evo, but I think it is not worth your time! As it sounds from the others there is no difference and assuming that is the case I will have to decide for myself if I want to switch to Iwata or stay with H&S and simply live with the fact that for very fine details I either need to use a normal brush, some penciles or use any other technique like I did so far when I didn´t get the results I want with the gun. As I mentioned I do this for fun only and I simply need to decide for myself if I want to spend 400€ on a gun and three times the price for a replacement nozzle or needle compared to the Evo!

If the difference wouldn´t be that huge it would be an easy decision!

 

[AndreZA]

I don´t really see any benefit in having triple chrome instead of nickel to be honest. My classic Evo is nickel too and works perfectly fine for me.

Firstly it looks better. If you have nickel allergies you have to use chrome. I don't know why but the chemicals in my skin leaves marks on nickel coatings.

Maybe I´m spoiled by how easy it is to clean the Evo, but what makes it so hard to clean compared to other guns?

Only the Eclipse range of Iwata guns have drop in nozzles like the H&S guns. All the others are screw in. So if you want to clean the nozzle, you have to use tools. With the Micron it is okay because you can remove the whole head to get to the back of the nozzle. Very easy to clean.

 

[pcDoc]

I absolutely don´t care about the look of my gun, but more about the result it can deliver. And I´m lucky I don´t have an nickel allergy, so not really an argument for me. The only downside I noticed though is that the 2mm cup already has some areas inside where the nickel is gone and you can see the brass. I guess that comes from cleaning.

I just checked out some reviews on the different Iwata guns. All positive, what a surprise... What I couldn´t find is the real difference between these guns, except the needle/nozzle of course. Is there any test around showing the differnt results? Meaning the atomisation, the finnest lines possible,... stuff like that?

I was close to give the Micron a try, but the prices for needs and nozzles are shocking... Both parts together is almost the price of a whole Evo gun...

I´m also not clear on the different versions of the Micron, the SB2 has the side cup, which I would like to have as with my pretty large finges and the 5mm cup on the EVO, I struggle a bit. It works, but not as I would like to have it. Now the CM-B2 looks like the cup is very close to the trigger too. Can someone please confirm if the distance between cup and trigger is the same or less on the Micron compared to the Evo?

Assuming it is the same or less on the Micron, the CM-B2 is unfortunately not an option anymore. Is the SB2 version harder to clean or has it any other disadvantages compared to the B version? For really small detials, I sometimes need just one drop of paint, which is not a problem with the normal cup. Is that an issue with a side-feed airbrush to use just one drop of paint?