Micron vs. Infinity

[AndreZA]

I absolutely don´t care about the look of my gun, but more about the result it can deliver. And I´m lucky I don´t have an nickel allergy, so not really an argument for me. The only downside I noticed though is that the 2mm cup already has some areas inside where the nickel is gone and you can see the brass. I guess that comes from cleaning.

Nickel is not as tough as chrome. If use amonia based cleaners it will eat all coatings.

I just checked out some reviews on the different Iwata guns. All positive, what a surprise... What I couldn´t find is the real difference between these guns, except the needle/nozzle of course. Is there any test around showing the differnt results? Meaning the atomisation, the finnest lines possible,... stuff like that?

I don't think that exists.

I was close to give the Micron a try, but the prices for needs and nozzles are shocking... Both parts together is almost the price of a whole Evo gun...

You will use 5 H&S needles and nozzles for every Micron one. Iwata nozzles are steel and not brass.

I´m also not clear on the different versions of the Micron, the SB2 has the side cup, which I would like to have as with my pretty large finges and the 5mm cup on the EVO, I struggle a bit. It works, but not as I would like to have it. Now the CM-B2 looks like the cup is very close to the trigger too. Can someone please confirm if the distance between cup and trigger is the same or less on the Micron compared to the Evo?

Assuming it is the same or less on the Micron, the CM-B2 is unfortunately not an option anymore. Is the SB2 version harder to clean or has it any other disadvantages compared to the B version? For really small detials, I sometimes need just one drop of paint, which is not a problem with the normal cup. Is that an issue with a side-feed airbrush to use just one drop of paint?

V2 are available in all and will be replacing all V1 models in the Micron range. Just about the same guns with just a few tweaks like trigger and one piece needle guide. They say the head but nobody can confirm this seeing that part number stayed they the same.

 

[pcDoc]

Thanks for the quick reply!

You will use 5 H&S needles and nozzles for every Micron one. Iwata nozzles are steel and not brass.

I bought my Evo second hand 5 years ago and still work with the original nozzle and needle. Not sure how long I have to use it before that pays off... For sure different for people using it more intense than I do.

V2 are available in all and will be replacing all V1 models in the Micron range. Just about the same guns with just a few tweaks like trigger and one piece needle guide. They say the head but nobody can confirm this seeing that part number stayed they the same.

Thanks for the info, but my question was more targeted on the difference between the SB and the B version in terms of cleaning, handling and so on.

 

[Ronald art]

I use side feeds all the time and the cleaning is just as easy as with a gravity feed , in fact I find them easier to clean , and yes the side feed will work perfectly with just 1 drop of paint . the biggest pro on the side feed for me is the fact the cup isnt blocking my view and I can use it in all angles I want or need even upside down .
the only gravity feed I own is the 0.5 revolution and I only use it if I have to spray a micro pearl or metallic . the side feeds are the CM SB , the SM k33 , the hp sb+ and the hp sbs

 

[pcDoc]

I use side feeds all the time and the cleaning is just as easy as with a gravity feed , in fact I find them easier to clean , and yes the side feed will work perfectly with just 1 drop of paint . the biggest pro on the side feed for me is the fact the cup isnt blocking my view and I can use it in all angles I want or need even upside down .
the only gravity feed I own is the 0.5 revolution and I only use it if I have to spray a micro pearl or metallic . the side feeds are the CM SB , the SM k33 , the hp sb+ and the hp sbs

Thanks Roland! That really helps and answeres already the next question I would have had! Using it "upside down" or at a certain angle, was one thing I came across thinking about putting an airbrush directly on the wall in my kids´ rooms as you have the inclination of the ceeling due to the roof. So that is definitely a plus, even though I don´t know if I will make use of that often! Especially as it seems there is no downside to it, except the slitely higher price (as it is not available as red box version).

In terms of not blocking the view, I never really had a problem with that so far with the-EVO. But in case I had when doing some really really fine details going very close I simply removed the cup. That still holds a couple of drops of pait, which is normally enough. There is even a ultrasmall cup available for the those guns. So this point goes to the Evo/Infinity because of flexibility!

 

[Ronald art]

All I can tell that my first airbrush was a side feed and after working with it for 2 years or so I got so used to holding the brush any way I liked/needed it that I had trouble using a gravity feed as I kept forgetting to hold in a slight angle downwards when I had little paint in it or put a lid on the cup when I had much paint in it

 

[AndreZA]

But if you want Micron performance from a Micron without paying Micron prices you can get an Olympos Micron. They don't do side feeds though.

 

[Nessus]

I just checked out some reviews on the different Iwata guns. All positive, what a surprise... What I couldn´t find is the real difference between these guns, except the needle/nozzle of course. Is there any test around showing the differnt results? Meaning the atomisation, the finnest lines possible,... stuff like that?

I only have a HP-CS Eclipse, but my experience with that is that its fine line capabilities can actually go hair thin... BUT that is highly dependent on the paint brand and reduction. Some paints atomize and reduce well and I can push them extremely fine with the Eclipse, others atomize poorly no matter what I do to them and I just can't get fine or non-fuzzy line out of them at all. Extremely fine lines are very sensitive to trigger play as well, with the tiniest shift in trigger position making the difference between a broken line, a proper fine line, and a (relatively) thick line.

So I'd speculate the difference between an Eclipse and and Micron is not so much in how fine a line the brush can ultimately do, but rather in the amount of fiddling required to achieve those lines. Also I keep hearing that Microns are more tip-dry resistant than the other models, which would be a huge bonus no matter what. Other Iwata models may vary in ways I'm not aware of, but unless there are some really "black sheep" models scattered in there, I'd guess they mostly follow the pattern of being able to do similarly very fine lines under ideal conditions, but with "ideal conditions" being broader with some models than with others.

 

[jagardn]

I only have a HP-CS Eclipse, but my experience with that is that its fine line capabilities can actually go hair thin... BUT that is highly dependent on the paint brand and reduction. Some paints atomize and reduce well and I can push them extremely fine with the Eclipse, others atomize poorly no matter what I do to them and I just can't get fine or non-fuzzy line out of them at all. Extremely fine lines are very sensitive to trigger play as well, with the tiniest shift in trigger position making the difference between a broken line, a proper fine line, and a (relatively) thick line.

So I'd speculate the difference between an Eclipse and and Micron is not so much in how fine a line the brush can ultimately do, but rather in the amount of fiddling required to achieve those lines. Also I keep hearing that Microns are more tip-dry resistant than the other models, which would be a huge bonus no matter what. Other Iwata models may vary in ways I'm not aware of, but unless there are some really "black sheep" models scattered in there, I'd guess they mostly follow the pattern of being able to do similarly very fine lines under ideal conditions, but with "ideal conditions" being broader with some models than with others.

The eclipse is an awesome brush, but it's no micron. I could use it for 90+% of my work. The last 10% I reserve for either the micron or Evolution/Infinity.

 

[pcDoc]

The eclipse is an awesome brush, but it's no micron. I could use it for 90+% of my work. The last 10% I reserve for either the micron or Evolution/Infinity.

That´s interesting, so for the fine details you would prefer the Evo over the eclipse?

 

[AndreZA]

That´s interesting, so for the fine details you would prefer the Evo over the eclipse?

That depends on what size the Evolution is equipped with. The cool thing about the H&S guns is that you only need one gun to cover everything from 0.6 to 0.15.

 

[jagardn]

That´s interesting, so for the fine details you would prefer the Evo over the eclipse?

I get finer detail and more subtle control with the .2mm and .15mm on the Evo. The Eclipse is very capable of fine detail, just not quite as good as the Evo in my opinion.

 

[pcDoc]

I still didn't make it to a shop to get my hands on an Iwata CM-SB, but I can't get that gun out of my head!

While trying to do some fine details with the Evo on my PP train exercise, I again faced the same "issues" which made me think about buying a new gun! I somehow get there, but I wonder if the CM could help me getting there more easy! I use the Quick-Fix handle, which is really handy for doing fine detail. I played around with reduction and air pressure a bit, but I always get to the same results. If I reduce it to a minimum to get really fine detail, the Evo starts doing kind of dotted lines. It works fine with multiple passes and for really fine details I normally don't do long lines. But it is still a bit anying as with multiple passes you never get 100% the same line.

The second difficulty I face from time to time is, after several coats of paint I get spider lags, when I'm really close to the paper using reduced colors. On blank paper it works, as I guess the paper absorbs the paint better. I can go down to 1,2 bar (17,5 psi) air pressure, but I cannot really go lower, without having other problems.

So I get there in both cases, but I was wondering if the CM would make my life easier in those two scenarios? I often read the CM works well at lower pressures, so that is an indication already! And many of you wrote it makes details easier and more repeatable.

It is a bit insane to invest 400€ to upgrade your AB, especially if you do it just for fun and not for professional use, but if it is really worth help solving those issues mentioned above, I'm more or less ready to spend that money!

 

[JackEb]

It sounds like you've made your mind up to get the CM-SB so what I'm about to say wont make any difference but may seal the deal for you.
Now you need to remember that I'm a newbie, very few works done due to lack of time / bad health, and you wouldn't think I'd know the difference between a .2 and a .18 needle...... wrong !
I have .2 HP-A+, .2 HP-B+ and a .18 CM-B. I kept putting off using the Micron because I figured I wasn't good enough to warrant it at this point in time, but after a chat with Mr.Micron I put it to use.
the difference is noticeable even to a newb like me, it is just so smooth to use, and I can spray so much easier at low pressure, (10psi or lower) with the Micron, the HP+ struggles at the pressure, (intermittent paint flow)

like I said, its just something I've noticed and I haven't been painting that long to be able to compare all the nuances of all the different models, (I only have Iwata)
Just because you do it non professionally doesn't mean you shouldn't have the best tool for the job, who knows, once you get going with the micron you may be able to earn an income from your hobby : )

 

[pcDoc]

Well, I didn't really finally decide on it (I need to hold it in my hands first), but as everybody is so impressed and happy with the micron I thought about giving it a try. Then there are no excuses anymore! If something doesn't work, it must be me not the gun!

I'm much more newbie than you are, especially in terms of being able to tell the difference between different airbrushes, as I just owned and still own one! Never had the chance to try another one yet. So what you own is much more than I ever tried so far! And it is great to read that it does also help a newbie and not just a pro!

Maybe I should consider this to be my christmas present I make to myself!

I couldn't really find something negative about that Micron, except expansive spare parts, and it seems I could sell it again with moderate loss if I'm really not happy with it.

 

[JackEb]

I've bought so many 'early Christmas presents to myself' I don't qualify for any more until at least 2030 !!

Keep an eye on the 'for sale' section here, I picked up the CM-b for half price, I factored in the possible cost of replacement head / needle and it was still a bargain

 

[Nada]

Well, I didn't really finally decide on it (I need to hold it in my hands first), but as everybody is so impressed and happy with the micron I thought about giving it a try. Then there are no excuses anymore! If something doesn't work, it must be me not the gun!

I'm much more newbie than you are, especially in terms of being able to tell the difference between different airbrushes, as I just owned and still own one! Never had the chance to try another one yet. So what you own is much more than I ever tried so far! And it is great to read that it does also help a newbie and not just a pro!

Maybe I should consider this to be my christmas present I make to myself!

I couldn't really find something negative about that Micron, except expansive spare parts, and it seems I could sell it again with moderate loss if I'm really not happy with it.

I just got an olympos micron. Its a world of difference BUT. I had to learn all about pressure and reduction etc first. Cant say about the infinity, most like them. A few hate them.

 

[Vladimir]

My friend says that she likes HP-C Plus more than her Infinity. At the time when their nozzles 0.15 and 0.3 mm! She can have better detailing and no spray issues with HP-C. That was a surprise to hear from her.
I've never tried german ABs but I tried a lot of iwatas and from my experience I can say that Micron 0.23 is a way better than any High Perfomance 0.2 mm. One of these days I'll try my new 0.18 mm Micron and I think there's new surprise that's waiting for me I thought that there can not be such a difference in spraing till I tried Micron myself. So for detail works I'll use Microns only. Before I tried, I had thought Micron series existed only to get extra money from our pockets but I was wrong

 

[GregStith]

I recently got an Olympos Micron with an extra head set for $210 shipped to my door in 7 days. The trigger is close to the cup but doesn't bother me since I don't go up to my finger joint when painting. After using it a while and then going back to the Eclipse I really notice how balanced the Olympos is compared to it. I can paint with a single drop of paint (with reducer) and my style never causes issues with the cup being in my line of sight. If you're dead set on a side feed then this isn't for you but I absolutely love this gun now that I've used it for about 6 weeks. I can spray super thin lines and it flows great at low psi. If there is a better performing brush out there then I will probably buy it one day because I've caught the sickness. But I don't know how you can beat the Olympos for $210. (160 for brush only)

 

[Vladimir]

And there's something I forgotten to say A few guys told me that they had issues with H&S triggers after some time of use. And their nozzles live much shorter life as compared to iwata. So there are a lot of issues with german made ABs that I'd say is rather strange. I never, I mean NEVER, had any issue with iwata ABs.

I recently got an Olympos Micron with an extra head set for $210 shipped to my door in 7 days. The trigger is close to the cup but doesn't bother me since I don't go up to my finger joint when painting. After using it a while and then going back to the Eclipse I really notice how balanced the Olympos is compared to it. I can paint with a single drop of paint (with reducer) and my style never causes issues with the cup being in my line of sight. If you're dead set on a side feed then this isn't for you but I absolutely love this gun now that I've used it for about 6 weeks. I can spray super thin lines and it flows great at low psi. If there is a better performing brush out there then I will probably buy it one day because I've caught the sickness. But I don't know how you can beat the Olympos for $210. (160 for brush only)

Greg, I've solved the problem with Olympos's trigger Stock one is inconvenient for me to draw so I've done a pad for it. I've got to take pictures and to show them here on the forum, maybe someone will make the same modification. I looks different to that I've done before.
I've also done some other improvments to the Olympos.
About the sickness... Me either here... fortunately or not but I got it! I'm already making trigger pad now for my new CM-SB as I don't like new trigger. I don't like any stock trigger but I like V1 version of the Micron trigger as it's easier to make a pad for it
Now I'm thinkig what Micron to buy next There's kinda airbrush virus floating in the air! And some catches it

 

[pcDoc]

I'm absolutely not set on a side feed yet. But I do, especially for details, have my fingerjoint on the trigger and I have pretty large hands (which can hold a basket ball). As mentioned before on the Evo I have no problems using the 2mm cup, but the 5mm cup is not that comfortable anymore (but works). Just looking at pictures of both guns, the trigger of the CM seems to be much closer to the cup, so the side feed would solve that issue! With a normal cup I never had problems to see the area I'm painting on, so that is not really an argument for me to by the side feed. All about the big hands!

The price of the Olympus is clearly fantastic, but I nowhere found it for 160 USD! More in the range of 250 USD (incl. shipping). If there is a solution for the trigger the Olympos would be back in the game of course, so a picture of your solution @Vladimir would be very welcome!