Oh $&it moment, turned opportunity

[crewchief227]

Hello all,

New to the forum and glad to be here. This must be like the 10th wed forum I have joined. Anyways, I was practicing today and had a oh crap moment. I noticed the needle had a very slight bur on the tip, almost unable to see with the naked eye but could feel it with my fingernail. So I decided to take this opportunity to try something. I mean hell the needle was already bad what's the worse that could happen? So I do a full tear down of my HP-CS and bust out my diamond sharpening set for my knives. Needless to say after an hour or so of VERY careful sharpening and polishing I ended up with something amazing. A diamond polished needle that is better then an original. Not only do I have my fine detail back I also have less tip dry and picking less. Why can't Iwata do this? Also it had me wondering if you could actually make a needle from ceramic or say tungsten. Something ultra smooth, I know ppl will say that ceramic would be to fragile, but would it? I mean at that size anyway even steel is pretty fragile. Personally I vote for tungsten with a tip to match. Anyways that's my rant, there are some pics attached.

 

[RebelAir]

Welcome along, yer polishing ya tip is certainly not a bad thing, as ya mentioned it can really help with flow etc. I get my buddy down the street to do it for me on a tool and cutter grinder, that way you can ensure a perfect fit, doing so by hand can work or on occasion can create flats that become a bleed point, but I'm really glad it worked out for ya and yer keep experimenting m8, def best way to learn especially when the guns playin up, anythings gotta be better than that I think many of us have had similar thoughts and I cant tell you why some manufacturers dont polish the needles more, I suppose it could come down to replacements, like most industrys a lot of money come from spare parts sales. I'm sure on some models likely they do polish a bit more but it does also come down to economics no doubt, I'm sure a carbide chucked in there would last for near ever LOL..Even heat treating the tip and then polishing it, may help avoid those little hooks we always cop, but it is what it is and no doubt if they started using carbides or tungsten or titanium on their gear we likely would pay through the roof ..bust best of luck, I'm sure many will appreciate the tip and again welcome along..

 

[Immortal Concepts]

I have hardened stainless steel needles that are polished with compound and 2000 grit with a drill. This particular alloy has a higher Chromium/Nickel content. These added alloys create a highly corrosion-resisent surface resulting in even less tip dry. I've never tried it with waterbased paints, but for urethane it's great. Stronger and slicker than standard needles. The other ones if you even sneeze around it the damn tip always finds a way to bend. I remember the old trick to fix a bent needle was to take a penny and a piece of glass and pinch the end between it and pull back. Used to work real good.

 

[MeeshellMP]

Hmm, interesting!!

 

[RebelAir]

As its a very interesting subject thought wld post this for some who may wonder on the whys..The pic below shows stainless steel, image on the left unpolished, on the right polished..Not hard to see why tip dry or tip build happens.


Now as mentioned this is on stainless, imagine what low polished or unpolished standard steel looks like, full of hills and gullys that trap paint, as paint likes to bond together more builds up on it and soon ya have gunk everywhere LOL, well under the microscope at least ya would LOL..Tip dry also has a lot to do with friction, that friction ultimately is created by these hills and valleys but can also depend on the materials within the material, IE Everyone knows Graphite has a very Low Coeffecient Of Friction, ah if only we could have graphite or glass needles LOL...Mmmm thats got me thinking now, forget our Paint range Immortal, we're going into glass airbrush needles instead LOL..

My fave pic I have and yes I have these stored in my computer LOL, I kind of used to teach this stuff or maybe because its I'm just a nerd LOL :0 is one of a Gauge Block under a microscope, not sure if many of ya's know what a Gauge Block is but its an extremely accurate measuring tool, like I mean these things need to be temp controlled they are that accurate..Extremely highly polished- and it looks like this..



So no doubt you can see we will always struggle with tip dry and build-up but although we never may get rid of it completely, polishing helps a crapload.....LOL..Glass needles here we come, new wave of the future LOL

 

[basepaint]

I have hardened stainless steel needles that are polished with compound and 2000 grit with a drill. This particular alloy has a higher Chromium/Nickel content. These added alloys create a highly corrosion-resisent surface resulting in even less tip dry. I've never tried it with waterbased paints, but for urethane it's great. Stronger and slicker than standard needles. The other ones if you even sneeze around it the damn tip always finds a way to bend. I remember the old trick to fix a bent needle was to take a penny and a piece of glass and pinch the end between it and pull back. Used to work real good.

Yep I've used that trick before too,took a few trys but I got it to work.

 

[Sekta51]

Well, TBH like Crew, I have often thought about how hard it would be to manuf a tungsten needle and nozzle or even a ceramic coated one. Taking a quick look at Wikipedia, tungsten carbide is actually a ceramic, it is way harder than steel and very abrasion resistant but is brittle so not sure if making something as small as a nozzle will work, might shatter. Adding it to some of the alloys is probably the way to go but then I am no metalurgist.

 

[ad fez]

http://www.ing.unibs.it/~zkovacs/color/needles_E.htm

zsolt has put alot of time and research in to needles, coatings and polishing, and actually hardens needles for marissa.....check the link for some cool info

 

[Oddball]

http://www.ing.unibs.it/~zkovacs/color/needles_E.htm

zsolt has put alot of time and research in to needles, coatings and polishing, and actually hardens needles for marissa.....check the link for some cool info

Wow, just read that ...(not all the blurb at the very end) but that is so interesting, I was under the impression that a brand new needle was as good as it gets .... obviously not! I'ts

 

[steve1111]

Maybe try some of this http://www.optimumcarcare.com.au/category/6/opti-coat_pro.html it's a ceramic coating maybe it would reduce tip dry. Look like an interesting product

 

[steve1111]

http://www.opti-coat.com/ sorry wrong link in my previous post

 

[Immortal Concepts]

I had always thought about making the needle hydrophobic so nothing would want to stick to it.

 

[Kasey24]

How do you like the lansky system? I'm a bit of a knife geek. I still use old fashion wet stone.

 

[Heliotropic]

How do you like the lansky system? I'm a bit of a knife geek. I still use old fashion wet stone.

I love my Lansky set. Works great for keeping a uniform edge.
I might have to get a spare needle and give this a try. Any tips on how to do it @crewchief227?

 

[splasha]

On the needle issue, I've often thought about it and wondered why couldn't some fish hook makers using their chem-sharp technology, make straight needles for airbrushes?
The japanese company, gamakatsu, make beautifully crafted [forged?] fish hooks that stay sharp for ages.
Oscar Mustad of Norway make absolutely awesome needle point ( Under their terminology Cone point ) fly hooks, so why wouldn't a straight point be easier to make? And if [ yeah, Iknow, BIG IF! ] they can, why couldn't they make and sell them as reasonably as their hooks?
I mean we'd all happily pay a few bucks each for a new needle, right?
And if it's a better one than we got now, wouldn't you also get a couple of spares?

 

[RebelAir]

@Heliotropic .......Slowly LOL

If ya gonna try it by hand, take ya time m8 and just don't overwork it and constantly rotate after the main hook or bend is sorted..If its a straight needle with just a small hook, a drill can be used to mount the needle in, spin on a slowspeed and tape some 2000 wet and dry (or use a grinding stone as mentioned) to some glass an very gently whilst spinning try to match the angle or the easiest way, wait till ya got a few to sort out, take it down to a local engineer and ask em to do it on a Tool and Cutter grinder if they have one, its a five minute set up for em so cant see em charging more than a few bucks a needle if ya have a few to do..The good thing about the tool and cutter grinder is that it will match the angle/s exactly and you can re-grind em a few times before ya run out of needle to grab and they can polish it to a much higher/flater grade..Am lucky enough to have a m8 in the game still, he charges me a chat to do my needles when needed and haven't had to replaced a needle in near 10 years LOL..But I am a cheap bastardo

 

[RebelAir]

@splasha They prob could do so easy enough m8 but its kinda like a music cd or DVD, cost 30 cents to produce but if ya making $15.99 on a new needle, ya want your users to go through them LOL

 

[splasha]

Your right, Rebel, but I was wondering if someone had suggested it to 'em?
After all, it's sorta in their line anyway?

 

[RebelAir]

Depends on tooling needs I'd guess mate, I assume most hooks are forged in one piece but never really seen the process so unsure, as ya prob know a good CNC Grinding machine can cost a few hundred thousand, dunno how many would want to set such up and then undersell a market that may take em years to just pay back the set-up costs, but one day m8 I have no doubt someone will looksie at it or find a really cheap good process, wonder if electroplating wld help, may try one and see..At worst it will look cool LOL

 

[Boltcase]

You could electoplate your needles in diffrent colors to keep better track of which ones go with which gun. I might just chk into that..nice idea @RebelAir