Ready to step up

[Armored76]

I was using an el cheapo Fengda BD-130 for the past three years or so. I was and still am very happy with it but I'm also ready to step up to a better one for fine detail work (think freehand camouflage on 1/72 scale armors and the like).

Having used the Fengda for such a long time I'm really hooked on the needle travel limiter screw at the end of the handle and the possibility to remove the needle cap for easier tip cleaning during the work. I already bought a Harder & Steenbeck Ultra with 0.2mm needle but sold it after realizing that I need the features mentioned above.

Now, to my question: which airbrush of the better builds would have a needle limiter and a removable tip cap without exceeding say 100-150 Euro? I would start with a 0.2 or 0.3 needle but an option of chaing it to 0.5 or larger would be nice.

Thanks a lot!

Cristian

 

[haasje dutchairbrush]

Now, to my question: which airbrush of the better builds would have a needle limiter and a removable tip cap without exceeding say 100-150 Euro? I would start with a 0.2 or 0.3 needle but an option of chaing it to 0.5 or larger would be nice.
Cristian

None that comes to mind, those in general are the "extra options" that come with the more expensive models of the brands. Most of the time they can be bought seperate but adding that to a cheaper airbrush is more expensive than going for the more expensive ones in the first place (I think you can "upgrade" the H&S you mentioned with them).

ps if you are still going through the basic's I'd strongly advice against using the limmiter as you will not learn the control you need that way. You can use them later on when you can do thin lines freehand to make life easier though

pss I forgot to mention my magical 8ball forsee's references to the introduction section

 

[Nessus]

I agree with Hassje RE: the needle limiter. You can't really learn by using a limiter because it completely eliminates the very action you'd gain experience from. They're often marketed as sort of "training wheels", but what they actually do is the opposite: they cultivate dependency by locking you into a skill plateau.

Having the ability to take the air cap off to expose the needle tip is pretty standard for most AB models out there, so you don't need to worry about that as much. A lot of people use their ABs with the cap off by default anyway, as it makes it easier to see exactly where the needle (and thus the spray) is targeting when working up close.

Looking up pics of the Fengda bd-130, it appears to be a knockoff of Iwata Hi-Performance/Olympus style body, but with an Iwata Eclipse style nozzle.

So if you want something that will be very familiar when it comes to maintaining the nozzle, you'll want an Iwata Eclipse. TBH though, since you live in Europe, the H&S brushes will probably be a better bargain. Cheaper to buy than Iwata, and parts will be cheaper too. H&S brushes (except the Ultra) all have cross-compatible parts, so you can buy a single brush and upgrade or customize however you want as needed. The Evolution Silverline Solo is going for 119 Euro on Amazon.de, that might be a good starter.

 

[Armored76]

Thank you so much for sharing your insight on this!

I think I will have a closer look at the H&S line again but a first look tells me that the Evolution just like the Ultra doesn't have a removable needle cap. At the same time, I found out there is a way to replace this cap with one from the Infinity (part #126773+126793) which would make at least the cleaning easier. As for the limiter, I will take your word on this. I haven't yet felt the urge to drop that feature but I can see how it might improve my skills.

 

[Nessus]

Ah. When You said "needle cap" I though you were talking about a different part. The part you're talking about isn't something that should need removing unless paint has somehow gotten backflushed into the air part of the system. It does cover much of the nozzle end, but the part it covers, again, shouldn't get paint on it under normal usage. If you're having to regularly remove the nozzle cap to clean during a painting session, then something in your cleaning or spraying procedure is flawed or going wrong.

Normally when you need to clean the needle tip or nozzle opening during use, swab/brush forward along the exposed bit of the needle & nozzle with a q-tip or soft toothbrush moistened with solvent, then give it a quick little blast of just air without pulling back on the trigger.

 

[ferret]

I use the H&S brushes now and I find the limiter very handy ,in the way it stops me making errors . I like the ease of cleaning and the fact that the parts interchangeability . I do like the FPC air valve very easy to adjust air pressures and does not get in the way .

 

[Armored76]

Sorry, I think I have to explain this differently... By needle cap I meant the small crown that I think is only supposed to protect the needle end and not part it screws in which drives the air to the needle/nozzle. This second one normally stays on. On the parts referenced above, it is the "forked" part which would allow me to clean the tip sideways. I very often had the problem of paint accumulating in this cap/crown so I always take it off while spraying and back on for protection when the brush is not in use.

 

[Nessus]

Oh, then we were talking about the same part at the start. That should be removable on H&S brushes as well.
Check here:
https://sites.google.com/site/donsairbrushtips/harder-steenbeck-evolution-solo-review

Part "A" on the diagram. Further down you can see photos of it disassembled.

I'd guess it just looked like it didn't come off because the seam was really fine, maybe?

 

[Armored76]

Exactly! It was part A. I was absolutely sure the Ultra only had one part for A+B... But I' nor sure anymore *doh*

 

[AndreZA]

See what the Olympos guns cost these days. I'm sure they will be in your price range.

 

[jagardn]

Exactly! It was part A. I was absolutely sure the Ultra only had one part for A+B... But I' nor sure anymore *doh*

The Ultra has a one piece head assembly. Some of the Evolutions have a two piece assembly. The CR Plus and AL models have the head assembly which accepts the pronged needle cap.
I think all of the caps are interchangeable between the H&S brushes.

 

[Nessus]

See what the Olympos guns cost these days. I'm sure they will be in your price range.

Good call!

Looks like the HP series ones are 130 Euros over at Lion Art

Might be cheaper direct from Japan, but I don't know what customs fees and such might add.

Parts are super expensive, but if they're like Iwatas (Iwata is sort of a descendant of Olympus), then the parts you have should last almost forever if you take care of them. One downside of H&S brushes from what I've heard is they use soft metal, so you have to replace needles and nozzles from time to time just from ordinary wear.

 

[jagardn]

Good call!

One downside of H&S brushes from what I've heard is they use soft metal, so you have to replace needles and nozzles from time to time just from ordinary wear.

I've heard this multiple times throughout the years, but have found it to be untrue. I haven't had to replace needles and nozzles in my H&S brushes any more than my Iwata/Olympos brushes. All replacements have been my fault(butter fingers and whacking the needle on stuff)
I use my Evolution AL Plus more than anything else, I haven't had to replace anything on it due to wear and tear. I did drop the brush once and flared the nozzle, but I've done it with Iwatas too.

 

[Armored76]

To be honest, I never heard of the Olympos line so far. A quick look shows as good as no availability over here in Germany. I was only able to find one on Ebay and some third-party nozzles. While I'm sure this is a valid alternative for some I don't think it is for me. Thank you anyway for the suggestion!

Some of the Evolutions have a two piece assembly.

This sounds interesting! Would you know how to tell apart those Evolutions that have this features from those that don't? Only looking at the images I was not seeing much difference between the Ultra and Evolution and for this reason I haven't gave this line a deeper thought so far.

Thanks!

 

[jagardn]

To be honest, I never heard of the Olympos line so far. A quick look shows as good as no availability over here in Germany. I was only able to find one on Ebay and some third-party nozzles. While I'm sure this is a valid alternative for some I don't think it is for me. Thank you anyway for the suggestion!


This sounds interesting! Would you know how to tell apart those Evolutions that have this features from those that don't? Only looking at the images I was not seeing much difference between the Ultra and Evolution and for this reason I haven't gave this line a deeper thought so far.

Thanks!

Not sure if it would fit the ultra, but the parts from the Evolution and Infinity lines have all been interchangeable.

 

[Armored76]

Great! Thank you!

Looking at the Evolution, I also found something called Quick Fix which seems to be pretty much an enhanced needle travel limiter. I really like its memory function. Too bad this is not fitting the Ultra, tough.

To be honest, I'm still not really seeing the added value of the Evolution over the Ultra except for the cap and maybe some additional needle sizes at about 70% higher price...

 

[Nessus]

Mostly I think the Evolution gets you a wider range of customization and uprgadabilty, as the body is cross-compatible with the Infinity's "guts", whereas the Ultra's is not. So aside from the needle/nozzle, there is also the potential for better trigger action, and you can change cup sizes the same way you can needle sizes.

Basically by buying an Evo instead of an Ultra, what you're paying for is "future proofing" against the possibility that you might want to upgrade again someday, or that you might find yourself wanting to use your brush for things other than what you currently use it for.

But also the "Silverline" version has chrome rather than just nickel plating on the body. Chrome is more hard wearing than nickel, and easier to clean. Also chrome is less chemically reactive, so unlike nickel it is hypoallergenic, and won't become etched over time by your skin oils.

 

[Nessus]

Actually, strike that last bit above. On rechecking, the Silverline does not have a chrome finish, just nickel. It's the Evolution CR+ that's the chrome model. Unfortunately, the CR+ doesn't have the preset handle you're looking for, just the plain standard pointy handle. Also it is more expensive.

There's also the Hansa airbrushes, which are also made by H&S. Dunno anything about them, other than that they have two-stage trigger instead of double action. Doubt they have any interchangabilty with the other H&S lines, but they're about the same price as the Silverline, and they have a preset handle.

I think the Silverline and the Hansa are the only options that have all the features you want within the price range you quoted. I don't know if the Ultra will accept the Evo Silverline (or Infinity or Grapho) handle, but looking at it I kinda think it won't.

Is Germany one of those countries with heavy import taxes and/or customs fees? Just wondering why you're limited to looking for sources within Germany.

 

[Armored76]

Thank you Nessus! I makes more sense now.

Not sure about the taxes but looking at the prices the H&S line has a slight advantage over Iwata, for instance. The Ultra costs around 70 Euro while the Neo is around 80. Not much but still.

Another point is that I was really hooked on the self-centering nozzle feature of the H&S line over the screw-in nozzle of the Iwatas since I already broke one of these types (not on an Iwata, tough).

 

[Nessus]

Hm. Looking things over...

The Iwata Eclipse has the nozzle type you want... but not the preset handle (there is such a handle for the Eclipse, but it must be bought separately, and isn't cheap). It can be had for similar price to the Silverline if you buy the direct import version, though that's not taking shipping into consideration, so actually an indeterminate amount more expensive. As much as I personally like the Eclipse, it does not compare favorably in terms of cost vs. features on the German/European market. For the same money, you're better off with the Evo Silverline.

At the very tippy-top of your budget is the Olympus MP-200C at 18360 JPY, (about 144 Euro as of this writing). That's the Olympus equivalent of an Iwata Custom Micron C, so a VERY good deal if you can swing it. Free shipping, but that can't speak for local customs or taxes, of course. Doesn't have the type of nozzle you want, but considering it's held as the equal if not slight better to the Iwata Micron (fewer bell and whistles, but allegedly sprays a tad nicer), that's like turning down a Ferrari 'cause it doesn't have the transmission you want.

H&S Evolution Silverline has all the features you want, plus easy future upgrade/customization potential, and probably cheapest parts since it's made locally. Only downside is base price is on the upper end of your budget.

Ordinary non-Silverline H&S Evolution is only a couple Euro cheaper than the silverline. What you get for that tiny price difference is significant (including, but not limited to, one of your desired features). If you can afford a regular Evo, you can afford a Silverline instead, so the regular Evo only merits token mention.

Hansa airbrush has all the features you want, and is approximately similar price to the Evo Silverline. Two stage trigger is a possible pro, depending on preference. Con is it's not upgradable or customizable like the Evo. The Hansa is interesting, but like the Eclipse, falls short of the Silverline in what you get for your Euro (though by a lesser margin).

Iwata Neo has only one of the features you're looking for. Also is not technically Iwata, as Neo manufacturing is outsourced to Chinese factories rather than made in Iwata's own factories. It'll be better than your Fengda, but not as good as the others on the list. It's cheaper than an Evo or Hansa...but that's about it. It has basically no advantages save cheapness.

H&S Ultra has only one of your desired features (floating nozzle design), though by buying an extra nozzle cover separately, it can be converted to have two. Pro is it's cheaper than a Neo... but only if you don't buy the extra nozzle part for the extra feature you want. Con is it's not as upgradable or customizable as the Evo.


All things considered, it still looks like the Evolution Silverline gets you the most bang for your budget, with the Olympus coming in second. Oympus is probably the better brush in terms of raw performance, but the Evo has everything you want right out of the box, and will have more Jack-of-all-trades adaptability.