Brush Decisions and a mask

Jacky, ooooh thanks for that. I guess what I am also thinking of is what Squishy said in one of her posts to someone way back, in that I don't want to be swapping between 2 differing models all the time, use one and get used to it (same with paint make). I guess once one is practiced at painting, then one can move up the ladder a bit more for something a little more 'precise'.

My guess is that @Squishy was infering that you get a brush and learn it, for a significant time, not for one session and say 'this is poo, I'll buy another'

Regardless of what brand you pick it will have its own idiosyncracies, it will depend on what paint and psi you are using.
get it all dialed in and magic starts to happen. Chopping and changing paint / brush etc will lead to frustration.
 
To be honest I don't notice much difference between the H&S .2 and .15 setup. But I'm not a skilled airbrusher either! No, you really don't NEED more than one airbrush. Ken from Badger airbrush put it best: buy the airbrush that fits your application. If you have different applications, then you may benefit from having a brush suited to each one.
On the other hand, if you've got the cash and that itch hits you, there's nothing wrong with buying a couple different brushes. You may very well find that you prefer the feel of a Badger or an Iwata. (I'm a Gemini... I get bored easily. Using a different brush helps me stay excited)
I own an Infinity and an Evolution. As far as how they spray, they are very much the same. One just looks a bit fancier than the other. Having two allows me to keep the .15 setup in one and the .2 in the other.
One other consideration is spare parts. I have brushes from Paasche, Badger, H&S... it can be a bit of a headache to manage spares. Sticking to one manufacturer can really reduce that headache.
 
According to u.s. customs iwata medea US recieves airbrushes from one place ...and its not anest iwata japan...Its Rich. They also hold basically every patent relating to iwata airbrushes for the last 20+years
There are paper trails enough to trace most of the other brands back to rich as well.
GSI creos, tamiya, rich, richpen...etc.
Correlating what models are identical to what, or what little differences there are is a bit more complex sometimes...

Indeed it is :) I didn't know that all those brands were all made by Rich but that makes a lot of sense (a production line is an expensive thing - why would you want to build many if you could get away with one?)

What I do know is this: everything is made to a tolerance, whether that is a mechanical tolerance for a part or a performance tolerance for a whole product. To this end it would be quite possible to make two seemingly 'identical' lines of airbrushes on one production line that would not have the same performance - maybe because the better line gets all the 'close tolerance' parts, may be because the better line is performance-graded to a higher standard.

So, while I can quite believe Iwata (or whoever) doesn't make airbrushes, if they are making sure (i.e. paying!) that only the high quality products get the Iwata badge their products will be better than the rest. This *may* be one of the reasons that Iwata are more expensive... of course they might just be over-priced!

I'm just trying to say that lots of things are possible, especially when it comes to graded manufacturing...
 
You make a really good point. This is true in commerce as a whole. How do you think WalMart can offer such good prices? They buy lots of factory seconds in bulk! In the manufacturing process, there will always be those units that fail to meet spec. Instead of throwing them away, you could easily put them into an alternate branded product and recoup the manufacturing cost.
 
Indeed it is :) I didn't know that all those brands were all made by Rich but that makes a lot of sense (a production line is an expensive thing - why would you want to build many if you could get away with one?)

What I do know is this: everything is made to a tolerance, whether that is a mechanical tolerance for a part or a performance tolerance for a whole product. To this end it would be quite possible to make two seemingly 'identical' lines of airbrushes on one production line that would not have the same performance - maybe because the better line gets all the 'close tolerance' parts, may be because the better line is performance-graded to a higher standard.

So, while I can quite believe Iwata (or whoever) doesn't make airbrushes, if they are making sure (i.e. paying!) that only the high quality products get the Iwata badge their products will be better than the rest. This *may* be one of the reasons that Iwata are more expensive... of course they might just be over-priced!

I'm just trying to say that lots of things are possible, especially when it comes to graded manufacturing...
It is a good point about manufacturing, but having many of the brands that come from the common maker, I assure you this is not the case with these products. Each "brand" specifies some of the final details; nozzle shape and size, needle contour, and some of the specs between nozzle and nozzle cap - and this is the only place these brushes vary. Many of the parts are common between them, with just small machining details made to distinguish one from the other. Iwata cost more simply because they have been more successful in their marketing. In my opinion, having many of the brands that come from this actual maker, Iwata has also chosen some of the most successful specs for the small details, too...
 
So you are saying that fine iwata brushes are better, slightly better but better at last!?


Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk
this will come down to a matter of personal opinion/preference - for me, I find the Iwata combination of parts works better on any of the brushes I have tried them on.
 
You are the brush guru to me!! You said me this brush is for you and you were 1000% right so!! [emoji1303][emoji1303][emoji1373]


Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk
 
Iwata does tend to have more options.
You could buy a ps-770 for $200 if your willing to have a C cup or a CM-b+ for $550 if you really have to have a b cup, but is it worth $350.....? thats up to the user.


Just a side point but
I'd add that in fact on the newer aircats , the Mac versions are actually slightly de-tuned...running smaller rotors....Still cost triple
I can't delude myself into thinking i somehow got something definitively better with the Mac bc i paid way more.

With the brushes I think what differnces there are most people couldnt actually tell, I cant tell a performance difference between my ps270 and an hp-b+ though i know there is one minor difference that i could change for $20-$30 if i could see the benefit. Id still be ahead about $120 over the b+
 
Last edited:
It is a good point about manufacturing, but having many of the brands that come from the common maker, I assure you this is not the case with these products. Each "brand" specifies some of the final details; nozzle shape and size, needle contour, and some of the specs between nozzle and nozzle cap - and this is the only place these brushes vary. Many of the parts are common between them, with just small machining details made to distinguish one from the other. Iwata cost more simply because they have been more successful in their marketing. In my opinion, having many of the brands that come from this actual maker, Iwata has also chosen some of the most successful specs for the small details, too...

In all your research, do you believe they are using the same alloys or will some of them cheap out? For example, just saying a needle is stainless only gives part of the answer. You know there is a very large range of alloys all designated as stainless. Nozzles would be the other area.
 
In all your research, do you believe they are using the same alloys or will some of them cheap out? For example, just saying a needle is stainless only gives part of the answer. You know there is a very large range of alloys all designated as stainless. Nozzles would be the other area.
I think in the past there was perhaps a larger area of discrepancy here, I think these days, with modern production, they are much more similar, than not. Since the mid to late 80's the product(s) have gotten more and more similar, rather than different. At least in Japan - Taiwan, and other Asian countries are a different story.
 
Same factory doesn't mean same quality of materials, attention to detail, tolerances etc etc. Performance doesn't lie. Marketing, having a trusted name and history don't mean diddly if the product doesn't live up to it.
 
Food for thought..... Iwata pays an average of $15 a brush and receives about 1500 monthly to the US market, thats how piddly small the airbrush market is.
I'll pit the 270 against an hp-b+ anyday...the difference will be so negligible there will be no clear winner except in price.
As most micron users have come to say the 770 is definitely equivalent....

For perspective what we are discussing really does equate to badger patriot vs a satagraph 4
or maybe a mac tools airbrush...or maybe ammo aircobra
which do you think is made better?
 
Food for thought..... Iwata pays an average of $15 a brush and receives about 1500 monthly to the US market, thats how piddly small the airbrush market is.
I'll pit the 270 against an hp-b+ anyday...the difference will be so negligible there will be no clear winner except in price.
As most micron users have come to say the 770 is definitely equivalent....

For perspective what we are discussing really does equate to badger patriot vs a satagraph 4
or maybe a mac tools airbrush...or maybe ammo aircobra
which do you think is made better?

Do you have the blueprints? Tolerance specifications? Material spec? Or you are just guessing? how many iwatas and olympos do you have? You were airbrushing for how long? Could be that in your hands they perfom equially because you dont have the skills to take out the best of them?
If you have the money, what would you choose? A VW or an Audi?


Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk
 
Could be, thats why i said i cant see the difference in performance...maybe someone else could.
I'm going off info from dave. U.s. customs , the japanese patent office ..and a direct comparison and measurements for a b+ and the 270 and on the business end there is a little difference in the aircap which if i wanted to i could replace w iwata and still have spent half.
When dave says the 770 and micron front end is identical....i believe it.
In any case, far more evidence than anyone has brought to the table to refute it.

Satas run twice the price of badger...sata is a lot bigger brand name, do we think sata has badger make their brush twice as good as they make their own?

I wouldnt buy an audi or a vw ,both are horrendous vehicles and a nightmare to work on due to the way they pile each component on top of the next with no forethought to how it would come out if it ever needed repairs LOL
 
Lets not start an arguement here, there is no right answer ever going to be found to 'is it worth the cost'

at the end of the day something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. If you have found a brush that is comfortable in your hands and you can get it to create magic then you have found your ideal brush.

Do I notice a significant difference between my Olympos / H&S / Iwata brushes.... Yes. I wont ever buy another Olympos.
I dont use my H&S very often it doesnt seem to enjoy Createx Illustration, so that is my Etac brush
So my preference is for an Iwata. Not because of the name but it 'fits' me better than the others.
 
Very true, whatever anyone likes is the best for them.
I just bring this stuff up mostly as hey, don't dismiss some of the other Japanese brands.... A lot of folks feel they really are just as good, and probably with good reason. They are worth looking at. Especially when the Op had stated that the iwatas he was interested in were out of budget, so he was curious about some cheaper options.
 
Last edited:
Very true, whatever anyone likes is the best for them.
I just bring this stuff up mostly as hey, don't dismiss some of the other Japanese brands.... A lot of folks feel they really are just as good, and probably with good reason. They are worth looking at. Especially when the Op had stated that the iwatas he was interested in were out of budget, so he was curious about some cheaper options.

oh i totally agree, what ever fits you and your budget is the perfect fit for you. dont be a brand snob (I know i can sound a bit of an Iwata fanatic, but all the other brands are not well supported where i am so it came down to availability of spares)
you often hear people saying that brand xyz needles are fragile or brand abc nozzle flare if you look at them wrong so everything has to come into consideration.
 
Back
Top