Wicked Colors problems with covering hard prepped surface

panicrevll28

panicrevll28

Young Tutorling
As another thread i started a few weeks ago. My other problem is that the paint wont cover the deeper sanded parts of my helmet. Is this beceause i sanded to hard or am i having a problem with the paint ? it doesnt matter how much layers of paint i spray on there it still wont cover.

mixing my wicked with 4030 and 4012.
 
pictures would help to understand your issue better,
Not sure why the 4030 unless you want to make it more transparent and how are you applying it to the helmet , Airbrush or spray gun? Is this the base coat ?
 
correct me if I am wrong but it looks to me you are painting this helmet blue , blue is more or less transparent and by adding more transparent additives you will need more and more layers , the second thing I noticed is the shape of the helmet : it will be harder to get a nice even coat on those lower parts .
Now I am not a createx user but al lot of members on here are and they will be able to help you
 
It may be that you’ve sanded too deep. Off the top of my head Createx suggest 320 grit sanding prior to applying Autobourne Sealer, then Wicked or any of their other ranges can go over top.


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I would say that these areas are to deep for paint also. By the looks of it they would need a little body filler prior to any primer. Otherwise the paint will sink into them as it has done. The crack at the top might be hidden with filler, but I’m not sure.
b12bd60ab75d7beee6e17ba83971839c.jpg



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
You probably should have just added to your previous thread, it would have made it easier by seeing what you had done / used previously.

Si has nailed it, you have gone to deep with your sanding / damaged before you started painting.
You should always start with a perfect surface or all imperfections will show up. if you continue to throw paint at it you'll likely wind up with patches of darker colour and an uneven surface

you are a little misguided on the uses of 4030.
You mentioned you checked the Createx website for info, I'm not sure where you are reading that you should use 4030 for protection against masking, I couldn't find anything that says it helps with masking.
FROM THE CREATEX WEBSITE:
Mix with any Createx Colors paint to create an acrylic-urethane paint.
Adding 4030 to Createx paints:
Improves flow and reduces tip-dry
Decreases surface tension allowing for heavier coats without cratering and improves levelling
Increases adhesion and mar resistance
Reduces drying times 4030 is generally added 10 – 25% per volume to Createx paints; when using candy2o, 4030 is added in greater amounts.
4030 is not recommended for use with Autoborne Sealers, Scenix Mural & Theme Paints or SSR Clears​

how you should have prepped for painting:
From the createx hard surface guide:
Plastics:
AutoBorne Sealers have excellent adhesion to soft and medium plastics with a Shore D Durometer of 80 or less.
Prepare plastic by scuffing with 400 grit paper or a coarse scuff pad.
For most plastics, AutoBorne Sealers adhere directly with excellent adhesion without the need for an adhesion promoter.​

​
I recently did a project on a car which involved nothing more than:
a scuff with 3M maroon pads,
Autobourne transparent sealer
and wicked detail paint
rattle can acrylic clear. (it wasn't for a show car so a serious clear coat wasn't needed)

I had zero issues with masking but you do have to allow it to cure properly or hit it with a hairdryer or heat gun.

You were asked in the last thread to do a little intro so we could have a little info on what your experience is but you haven't as yet so here comes the 1001 questions;

What airbrush / spraygun are you using
what paints, and in this instance what sealer or base coat are you using
what if any reducers
what PSI
how much experience do you have ?
​
If we have minimum info we can only provide guestimate answers !
 
JackEb said:
you are a little misguided on the uses of 4030.
Click to expand...

Is it possible I heard/read on this forum to add some 4030 over the edge of the mask so you don't get paint under it, or was that transparent base?

I don't know why, but seems like I heard something like this or something is messing with my head again.
 
huskystafford said:
Is it possible I heard/read on this forum to add some 4030 over the edge of the mask so you don't get paint under it, or was that transparent base?

I don't know why, but seems like I heard something like this or something is messing with my head again.
Click to expand...
A light spray of trans base will do the trick if you are using tape that suffers from bleed. Just a light spray is all that’s needed to ‘seal’ the edge but if you got to heavy handed with it and then with paint you will get an edge to your paint and risk pulling paint from your painted area.
The trick is to lightly spray colour close to the edge, the overspray will fill in the ‘gap’

4030 should make your paint behave more like a urethane.. a lot of people are having trouble with it going ‘off’ in the bottle or gumming up the airbrush and people are starting to avoid it
 
JackEb said:
A light spray of trans base will do the trick if you are using tape that suffers from bleed. Just a light spray is all that’s needed to ‘seal’ the edge but if you got to heavy handed with it and then with paint you will get an edge to your paint and risk pulling paint from your painted area.
The trick is to lightly spray colour close to the edge, the overspray will fill in the ‘gap’

4030 should make your paint behave more like a urethane.. a lot of people are having trouble with it going ‘off’ in the bottle or gumming up the airbrush and people are starting to avoid it
Click to expand...
giphy.gif


lol
 
As seems to be the case, some of the details of 4030 change quite often.
Where “taping” is concerned, Createx have claimed that due to the improved adhesion when using 4030 as a mix additive, it can help avoid paint lifting if you are doing a bunch of masking or taping over the top.
So what everybody is right in what they’re saying, just that sometimes we can be working from slightly older information.
E.g - Createx put out a video when Candy2o was released. In that video the viewer is told that during the demo the painter did not add any reducer and that “4030 IS the reducer for Candy2o”. This is obviously not the case as all the other info says to reduce with 4011 / 4012 / 4020.
The video is from Simon Murray of SM Designs who is the European distributor for Createx and has worked with them on product R&D for years. So it’s an official Createx tech video.
Where a lot of the Createx line are concerned the Tech information can and does change fairly often, so it’s important to make sure you’re working from as current a version of the Tech sheets as is possible. Fortunately they are very good at updating the free Tech info downloads on the www.createxcolors.com site.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
JackEb said:
You probably should have just added to your previous thread, it would have made it easier by seeing what you had done / used previously.

Si has nailed it, you have gone to deep with your sanding / damaged before you started painting.
You should always start with a perfect surface or all imperfections will show up. if you continue to throw paint at it you'll likely wind up with patches of darker colour and an uneven surface

you are a little misguided on the uses of 4030.
You mentioned you checked the Createx website for info, I'm not sure where you are reading that you should use 4030 for protection against masking, I couldn't find anything that says it helps with masking.
FROM THE CREATEX WEBSITE:
Mix with any Createx Colors paint to create an acrylic-urethane paint.
Adding 4030 to Createx paints:
Improves flow and reduces tip-dry
Decreases surface tension allowing for heavier coats without cratering and improves levelling
Increases adhesion and mar resistance
Reduces drying times 4030 is generally added 10 – 25% per volume to Createx paints; when using candy2o, 4030 is added in greater amounts.
4030 is not recommended for use with Autoborne Sealers, Scenix Mural & Theme Paints or SSR Clears​

how you should have prepped for painting:
From the createx hard surface guide:
Plastics:
AutoBorne Sealers have excellent adhesion to soft and medium plastics with a Shore D Durometer of 80 or less.
Prepare plastic by scuffing with 400 grit paper or a coarse scuff pad.
For most plastics, AutoBorne Sealers adhere directly with excellent adhesion without the need for an adhesion promoter.​

​
I recently did a project on a car which involved nothing more than:
a scuff with 3M maroon pads,
Autobourne transparent sealer
and wicked detail paint
rattle can acrylic clear. (it wasn't for a show car so a serious clear coat wasn't needed)

I had zero issues with masking but you do have to allow it to cure properly or hit it with a hairdryer or heat gun.

You were asked in the last thread to do a little intro so we could have a little info on what your experience is but you haven't as yet so here comes the 1001 questions;

What airbrush / spraygun are you using
what paints, and in this instance what sealer or base coat are you using
what if any reducers
what PSI
how much experience do you have ?
​
If we have minimum info we can only provide guestimate answers !
Click to expand...
 
JackEb said:
You probably should have just added to your previous thread, it would have made it easier by seeing what you had done / used previously.

Si has nailed it, you have gone to deep with your sanding / damaged before you started painting.
You should always start with a perfect surface or all imperfections will show up. if you continue to throw paint at it you'll likely wind up with patches of darker colour and an uneven surface

you are a little misguided on the uses of 4030.
You mentioned you checked the Createx website for info, I'm not sure where you are reading that you should use 4030 for protection against masking, I couldn't find anything that says it helps with masking.
FROM THE CREATEX WEBSITE:
Mix with any Createx Colors paint to create an acrylic-urethane paint.
Adding 4030 to Createx paints:
Improves flow and reduces tip-dry
Decreases surface tension allowing for heavier coats without cratering and improves levelling
Increases adhesion and mar resistance
Reduces drying times 4030 is generally added 10 – 25% per volume to Createx paints; when using candy2o, 4030 is added in greater amounts.
4030 is not recommended for use with Autoborne Sealers, Scenix Mural & Theme Paints or SSR Clears​

how you should have prepped for painting:
From the createx hard surface guide:
Plastics:
AutoBorne Sealers have excellent adhesion to soft and medium plastics with a Shore D Durometer of 80 or less.
Prepare plastic by scuffing with 400 grit paper or a coarse scuff pad.
For most plastics, AutoBorne Sealers adhere directly with excellent adhesion without the need for an adhesion promoter.​

​
I recently did a project on a car which involved nothing more than:
a scuff with 3M maroon pads,
Autobourne transparent sealer
and wicked detail paint
rattle can acrylic clear. (it wasn't for a show car so a serious clear coat wasn't needed)

I had zero issues with masking but you do have to allow it to cure properly or hit it with a hairdryer or heat gun.

You were asked in the last thread to do a little intro so we could have a little info on what your experience is but you haven't as yet so here comes the 1001 questions;

What airbrush / spraygun are you using
what paints, and in this instance what sealer or base coat are you using
what if any reducers
what PSI
how much experience do you have ?
​
If we have minimum info we can only provide guestimate answers !
Click to expand...

Let's start from the beginning then.

My name is Lars and im from The Netherlands decided to try and paint helmets just for fun.

About a month ago i decided to start airbrushing. I didnt know a thing about it and researched the web for maybe a week. bought a airbrush and a compressor with tank and some createx paint for 100 euro's and just started expirmenting on paper creating some funny things until i got the hang of it and try to go for the real deal. (my used helmet).

I already know that with a cheap airbrush it doesnt really work. but leave that to the side. the first time trying the paint on the helmet after a day i could wiped of all the paint like it didnt even attached. try to mask it and wham all the paint stuck on the masking tape. Did some researche on the internet again and found out i need 4030 (dont know why)

So i sanded everything off to try over again. Here is how i started !!!

1) Sanded my whole helmet from 300 to 600 to 900 and then to 1200. it was maybe already a little to fine !

2) Primed my helmet with a spraycan and then start sanding again all the way up to 1500. When i will do this next time i keep it with 600 grit and make sure the surface is completly good before laying any coat over it. Beceause i already learned that the paint wont cover ANYTHING !!!

3) Layed down a basecoat of white mixed 4030 and 4012 with my airbrush tip size 0.5 on 30 PSI. but i already found out that you cant lay an even coat with a Airbrush tip and needle size that small. Maybe need a spraygun. (Correct me if im wrong) It was also very hard to cover up the helmet cuz i maybe sanded to hard on the edges.

4) Started with masking off every part of the helmet it took me a hell of a time and start adding several different colors of Wicked Metallic. But still almost every color i sprayed i had a hard time covering op the white base. Also for the next time i found out this was a very helpfull tip for in the future on the createx website

(Tip: To create clean edges along tape lines, apply another light coat of the base color along the graphic edge prior to applying the graphic’s color(s). The additional coat of the base color will fill‐in any open space under the tape and crawl in slightly under the tape line, creating a crisper line when the graphic color is next applied.)

5) peeled off all the masking tape and found out that the helmet wasnt very smooth it had alot of edges and the surface wasnt smooth at all.

Now im at the point that i dont really know what to do beceause of the rough surface.

1 Clear Coat it and then start sanding ??

2 Dry sand 1500 and hope it wont start a nightmare ??


Problems i had allong the way was.

Paint wont covering at all (maybe sanded to harsh on specifiq edges ??? or the 4030 ? another spraygun?

Really rough edges on the helmet beceause of the different paint layers.

Hope this will inform you guys some more.

Here a few pics of my first airbrusjob. (Not verry happy with it but i need to start somewhere)
 
Doesnt look good but hey its the first one....

Its a good used helmet anyway. The other picture earlier in the thread is a visor.
 

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you will want to use a small spray gun for work like this an airbrush isnt up to a job like this
when you mask parts you will get ridges and you will want to scruff them out the only way to do that without damaging the paint job is a putting a clear coat over your work
I bought a fengda FE 116C "airbrush" just for work like this just check "marktplaats" it is real cheap and it will cover larger parts but that is because I want to use my airbrush compressor a better bet would be a HPLV spray gun and a big compressor
 
panicrevll28 said:
Doesnt look good but hey its the first one....

Its a good used helmet anyway. The other picture earlier in the thread is a visor.
Click to expand...
First of all, I think you’ve done a great job for a first go and using an airbrush on the larger places. You’ve done great.
From reading the different steps, the steps are right, but the grit was wrong. The original surface seems like it was probably too smooth for the paint. 4030 or any clear sprayed lightly over taped edges does fill any possible small gap between the tape and the surface to maintain clean lines, but won’t fill sanding scratches. The rough edges your feeling is possibly just a little too much paint built up against the tape edge. If you can, try spraying just inside the tape edge and letting the overspray carry to the tape, rather than the main jet of paint. This takes a little practice that’s all. And remember that multiple light coats are much better than fewer heavy coats when using base paint or graphics.


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