Createx 4013

same paint, two different bottles of 4012 - ( the one on the left was used for quite some time before producing these results). My studio is climate controlled year round, and bottles are stored in a closed cabinet.

4012. Interesting. That was the "bad" bottle I got, it did pretty much the same thing. The bottle I am using now is over 5 years old now, and I'm not having issues with it. Did they change the formula of 4012 at some point. It was the "new" bottle that went sour on me.
 
4012. Interesting. That was the "bad" bottle I got, it did pretty much the same thing. The bottle I am using now is over 5 years old now, and I'm not having issues with it. Did they change the formula of 4012 at some point. It was the "new" bottle that went sour on me.

I get the feeling they don't understand why there are issues. There have been enough published reports for me to see that it is more than just a mishandling on the end users part. They have also changed their recommendation for reducer(s) this year...
 
I get the feeling they don't understand why there are issues. There have been enough published reports for me to see that it is more than just a mishandling on the end users part. They have also changed their recommendation for reducer(s) this year...

You raise a good point I hadn't really thought about. Every time I hear of reducer not working right it seems to be 4012, and I did notice that their recommendations switched from 4012 back to 4011 recently. I noted it at the time because I had been under the mistaken impression that the 4011 was being discontinued. You're probably right, they probably just don't know what is going wrong with 4012. Like @huskystafford said, 4012 is a bit like playing the lottery it seems.
 
@Dave G. I know Bill Edwards told me it would work with all water based paint brands and it is good to read your results with it I didnt expect createx to change into a paint that sprays like Etac paints but I did expect the AG 2050 to improve the way createx sprays

Hmm, AG 2050 is not so easy to find here. I did order a dozen colors of PS, and some more base modifiers from one E'tac vendor here, in the States. Trying to track down the 2050 has been a bit more difficult - I did find it branded by Grex as Autograph Opti-film 2050.
 
@Kim McCann , they did discontinue 4011, only to re-release it recently as ‘high temp’ reducer. The fact the kept the same number makes me think that they had so many complaints about it being discontinued and so many complaints about the 4012 and seeding that they bought it back.
My concern is they have now discontinued 4012 and ‘forcing us’ to 4011 & 4013. I wonder how long before the remove 4011 as they 4013 is also suggested as a substitute to 4011!
Down here in Aus we can get the non flammable version of 4013 and I might order the smallest bottle they have so I can try it without the isopropyl to see how it behaves.
I just wish their chemists could come up with a stable alternative and stick with it and stop ‘tweaking’ it until it breaks lol
 
Whenever I bought paint I bought large reducer due to generally needing more reducer than paint. Health issues kept me away from painting for a period of time so the bottles have never been used. I saw the video, that’s why I posted the thread. ‘Down under’ can add isopropyl to the non flammable 4013, but my understanding is that you should NEVER spray Iso without appropriate respirator, kind of defeats the ‘less toxic’ appeal of water based paints and a mask instead of a respirator


@JackEb, From the TDS paper on 4013 says it IS FLAMMABLE, the label on front of the bottle in photo even has the flammable hazard icon / sign on it. That's why I can't use it in my airbrush station in the basement. While airbrushing, I'm only 8 to 10 feet from the furnace air intake. and don't need to explode my house, just because Createx was stupid enough to stop making 4012, just to make a flammable reducer, in my closed basement area. As for the spraying ISO or anything else with a mask and all that other stuff, I have painted complete cars and vans for years, in lacquer, Enamel, Base Coat.... even did my roadster rearend and other bits and pieces in Imron Aviation paint WITHOUT masks. I don't worry about that stuff... I'm 60 years old, and not planning to live forever or even 20 more years. Been smoking 2 to 3 packs of smokes a day too, for almost 40 years. Createx better keep making 4012 reducer or I'll be really pissed !!

P.S. I use to play with Mercury out of broken thermometers when I was a kid too, not making that up either.
 
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@Spritz
If you watch the video husky put up earlier in the thread you’ll see that Australia/New Zealand are getting a non-flammable version due to exorbitant shipping and duties. We then add 10% volume of isopropyl to make it the same as you guys in the US are getting, so in theory we get a choice of how we want the reducer to behave

4012 has been removed from Createx website and from online suppliers, once in store supplies run out then it’s no more 4012 for you


96076876-E14D-4ACD-A76E-7DB082E62F7A.jpeg

and just because you don’t mask up and haven’t had a problem doesn’t mean someone else much younger won’t. As someone with lung issues I can tell you that compromised lungs are not desirable !
 
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@Spritz
If you watch the video husky put up earlier in the thread you’ll see that Australia/New Zealand are getting a non-flammable version due to exorbitant shipping and duties. We then add 10% volume of isopropyl to make it the same as you guys in the US are getting, so in theory we get a choice of how we want the reducer to behave


@JackEb, Thanks, will go watch. BUT Are they making US give up 4012, ? Is what I have heard that Createx is stopping production of 4012 true ? I like 4012 and don't want to give it up., esp. for a flammable version I can't even use.
 
@JackEb, Thanks, will go watch. BUT Are they making US give up 4012, ? Is what I have heard that Createx is stopping production of 4012 true ? I like 4012 and don't want to give it up., esp. for a flammable version I can't even use.
Re-read my last post, I just edited it as you were typing lol
 
Re-read my last post, I just edited it as you were typing lol

@JackEb, I watched the video, but all of it had nothing to do with the U.S. supply / purchase options. So I guess I'm calling Createx on Monday and asking some questions and voicing some opinions. One being, if they are making it so they can add the Iso to 4013, why can't they just keep the 4012 here for those that don't want the Iso in it. Or are they going to give us in the U.S the option to buy 4013 with or without the Iso in it ? Without the Iso being a lower price than with of course, since they are leaving the Iso out. Man I HATE change, with a PASSION ! I think I'll go to bed before my head explodes from being pissed over this 4012 / 4013 B.S..
 
@JackEb, I watched the video, but all of it had nothing to do with the U.S. supply / purchase options. So I guess I'm calling Createx on Monday and asking some questions and voicing some opinions. One being, if they are making it so they can add the Iso to 4013, why can't they just keep the 4012 here for those that don't want the Iso in it. Or are they going to give us in the U.S the option to buy 4013 with or without the Iso in it ? Without the Iso being a lower price than with of course, since they are leaving the Iso out. Man I HATE change, with a PASSION ! I think I'll go to bed before my head explodes from being pissed over this 4012 / 4013 B.S..
This was part of my reasoning for posting.
If they can give Aust the option of non flammable and leave the choice up to us to add Iso then why can’t they do it for all. If enough people complain then maybe it may be the users choice to add iso. I’m not sure that non flammable is merely a rebadged 4012, but by all means contact Createx and let us know the answers.
 
@JackEb, So I guess I'm calling Createx on Monday and asking some questions and voicing some opinions.
Just wondering, can you ask a question for me as well? I send them mail like year ago and they never answered. Cause I am from Slovenia it's not practical to call them and they put me on half an hour hold...

I asked them: why the hell their color is different in each bottle. There is no consistency. If I buy yellow today and yellow next months there will not be the same yellow.

I can't imagine this kinda paint behaviour in auto industry.

here is a screen shoot with date how long I am waiting for my answer :D

Sry guys for off topic, but I was seeing opportunity here if Spritz will be pissed on createx enough when asking them for 4012, maybe I get lucky and Spritz will throw few more questions in their face :laugh:


Screenshot_2020-02-09 Houston, we got a problem her.png
 
Hmm, AG 2050 is not so easy to find here. I did order a dozen colors of PS, and some more base modifiers from one E'tac vendor here, in the States. Trying to track down the 2050 has been a bit more difficult - I did find it branded by Grex as Autograph Opti-film 2050.
that is the one
 
Because the 4013 is not yet available here I asked my supplier how well the reducer works without the added Iso. His response was
“After a conversation with Createx Colors the reducer works well both ways, the added Iso does decrease drying times and helps with flow and less tip dry when added.”

this sounds illogical to me.. decreased drying time AND less tip dry... if the paint dries quicker then how does that create less tip dry !!!
Why do I have the feeling this is going to be another 4030 journey... change formula, doesn’t work in the wild like expected, change its recipe and description multiple times until it’s no longer what was originally released.

Here is the TDS for anyone interested.
https://creatextech.com/pdf/tds/4013-Reducer-TDS.pdf
 
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@JackEb, From the TDS paper on 4013 says it IS FLAMMABLE, the label on front of the bottle in photo even has the flammable hazard icon / sign on it. That's why I can't use it in my airbrush station in the basement. While airbrushing, I'm only 8 to 10 feet from the furnace air intake. and don't need to explode my house, just because Createx was stupid enough to stop making 4012, just to make a flammable reducer, in my closed basement area. As for the spraying ISO or anything else with a mask and all that other stuff, I have painted complete cars and vans for years, in lacquer, Enamel, Base Coat.... even did my roadster rearend and other bits and pieces in Imron Aviation paint WITHOUT masks. I don't worry about that stuff... I'm 60 years old, and not planning to live forever or even 20 more years. Been smoking 2 to 3 packs of smokes a day too, for almost 40 years. Createx better keep making 4012 reducer or I'll be really pissed !!

P.S. I use to play with Mercury out of broken thermometers when I was a kid too, not making that up either.
I have a couple of idiot friends that were in the paint busineas and painted for decades with out a mask and both have bad lung issues where now they live with oxygen tubes with them 24/7 osha will close a shop now for the painters not masking up. So you painting with out masking up we do not recommend .
Your lungs get enough junk in them with out getting rainbow lung to go with it.
But then again I have stood without a chemical mask in live nerve agent so Uncle Sam could make sure I could inject myself and stay alive. But while a paint maybe water borne doea don't mean you should drink it or breath the vapor of it.
Sorry foe the rant but I do not support spraying paint without a mask.
 
HELLO EVERYONE !

At 11:43 am EST. this morning, I got off a phone call with Dennis in Createx tech department, ( it lasted 22 minutes, he was very nice and very helpful ) , all about this 4012 / 4013 reducer stuff. Since I can only take notes so fast and my short term memory sucks, with my pain and heart meds in me. This is the best I can recall of our little phone conversation. Forgive me if I got some little things wrong.

1: He said the 4012 will stay in production for at least 1 year, maybe 2 ... so we can stop sweating on that for the time being. Especially for me, after buying about 200 bottles of Createx paint and the racks, when the local craft store went under this past summer. I need time to stock up on the 4012 before it goes bye bye ! lol

2: They had to change from the 4012 because a new law in 2019 states that you must list any and all Prop 65 ( California whiners stuff ) on the labels of the product. One of their suppliers did not list the Prop 65 stuff, in the things Createx was getting from them to make products like the 4012.... so Createx did not know it was in the 4012 they were making. and ( possibly some of their paints from how I took it )..

3: The old 4012 was SHOCKING the NEW paint and screwing it up, so between the California Whiners Prop 65 law issue and shocking of the new paint issue , they had to reconfigure the mixture, which ended up as 4013.

4: The video link in the beginning of this thread is true, they are shipping the base 4013 mixture without the Iso to Aus., and it will work without the Iso, BUT it dries super super slow without the Iso The Iso helps the paint flow better, less tip dry and helps the paint adhesion better than the 4012. Dennis also said, they may sell it without the Iso here in the states, but he's not sure yet.

5: As for my issue of it being flammable. He said they have to mark it flammable because of the Iso in the mixture. Dennis said I'd pretty much have to shoot it directly into my furnace to get it to flash. because ONCE it was mixed with the paint it becomes harder to light off. So even in my situation of 8 to 10 feet from the furnace intake, I should be safe. Just DO NOT spray straight 4013 with the Iso into the air around an open flame , or across / into an open flame, the Iso will flash light even mixed with paint if sprayed directly into a flame.

Dennis also said 4013 is a really good reducer , better than the 4012 and we will really like it a lot. I tried to get them to come to the forum and post some info. He said they stay out of doing that, because they actually have Haters that cause them trouble. They don't even run their facebook page, they have someone else do that for them.

I hope this helps clear up some stuff. I know it's not a lot, but better than what I had in my mind, before the call.
 
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