Createx 4013

I have a couple of idiot friends that were in the paint busineas and painted for decades with out a mask and both have bad lung issues where now they live with oxygen tubes with them 24/7 osha will close a shop now for the painters not masking up. So you painting with out masking up we do not recommend .
Your lungs get enough junk in them with out getting rainbow lung to go with it.
But then again I have stood without a chemical mask in live nerve agent so Uncle Sam could make sure I could inject myself and stay alive. But while a paint maybe water borne doea don't mean you should drink it or breath the vapor of it.
Sorry foe the rant but I do not support spraying paint without a mask.

@Mr.Micron

Yeah I know it can create lung issues and OSHA will shut down a SHOP for not following the rules. I and my friends didn't work from a business shop, so we didn't need to follow OSHA rules. All our work was done from personal garages, not businesses. That's the nice part of doing things as a hobby and using that hobby to make side money from a home garage, you don't need to worry about an OSHA inspection OR their rules.

I understand your rant, and I don't recommend spraying chemical based paints without a mask, and I never did recommend it ! I JUST told people what I did it back in the day. I did it because I wanted to get the job done without spending money I did not have...for masks and junk. It got to be a habit, and since I had no ill effects from it ( AND STILL DON'T at 60 years old ) I did not worry. I still smoke, drink and paint water base paint without a mask. But I wouldn't do the chemical paint without a mask now. Besides my back is too messed up to even lean over a hood, roof and trunk lid, and squeeze the trigger.... But I may try to anyways, when my 1937 International D2 pickup is ready for paint. a 12 or 30 pack of beer and a couple of my usual ( prescribed by my doctor ) pain pills and I think I'd be ready to go for it.... with my friends help. I may even leave my mask off, just to mess with your head one last time.... and get me a nice little buzz to boot :D :p :laugh: lol
 
@Mr.Micron

Yeah I know it can create lung issues and OSHA will shut down a SHOP for not following the rules. I and my friends didn't work from a business shop, so we didn't need to follow OSHA rules. All our work was done from personal garages, not businesses. That's the nice part of doing things as a hobby and using that hobby to make side money from a home garage, you don't need to worry about an OSHA inspection OR their rules.

I understand your rant, and I don't recommend spraying chemical based paints without a mask, and I never did recommend it ! I JUST told people what I did it back in the day. I did it because I wanted to get the job done without spending money I did not have...for masks and junk. It got to be a habit, and since I had no ill effects from it ( AND STILL DON'T at 60 years old ) I did not worry. I still smoke, drink and paint water base paint without a mask. But I wouldn't do the chemical paint without a mask now. Besides my back is too messed up to even lean over a hood, roof and trunk lid, and squeeze the trigger.... But I may try to anyways, when my 1937 International D2 pickup is ready for paint. a 12 or 30 pack of beer and a couple of my usual ( prescribed by my doctor ) pain pills and I think I'd be ready to go for it.... with my friends help. I may even leave my mask off, just to mess with your head one last time.... and get me a nice little buzz to boot :D :p :laugh: lol
Well pushing 63 in just a few more days I can say I have painted one car with out a mask back in the 70's. without a mask but it was outside due too not having a garage. But I know all the rules came from all the years of auto painter and even house painters having lung issues from painting with out a mask.
Now may I suggest replacing the pisswater with moonshine and I want to see pics of the 37 when you get it done. I glad you're one of the lucky ones who doesn't have lung isaues
 
HELLO EVERYONE !
2: They had to change from the 4012 because a new law in 2019 states that you must list any and all Prop 65 ( California whiners stuff ) on the labels of the product. One of their suppliers did not list the Prop 65 stuff, in the things Createx was getting from them to make products like the 4012.... so Createx did not know it was in the 4012 they were making. and ( possibly some of their paints from how I took it )..

3: The old 4012 was SHOCKING the NEW paint and screwing it up, so between the California Whiners Prop 65 law issue and shocking of the new paint issue , they had to reconfigure the mixture, which ended up as 4013.

So they DID change the forumla of both the paint and the reducer, and the old reducer is incompatible with the new paint.

I cannot tell you how angry this makes me. I ruined 100's of dollars worth of wicked paint and was tearing my hair out, and could never figure out why my once go to Wicked Colors had become unreliable and borderline unusable. I just couldn't predict what bottle of what reducer with which bottle of paint was going to go bad on me. I have a cupboard full of wicked now that I am not sure if I can safely use, and not one bloody announcement about this on their website.

Well, it's easy to see why they complain about "haters". That was a really, really shifty thing to do. They should have made an announcement and possibly issued a recall.

For reasons that that are too long and complex to get into here, Isopropyl is an incredibly stupid additive to use in a spray situation. Even with a mask while painting, the particulates can remain in the air for up to 72 hours. This makes 4013 actually unusable for any indoor or home studio, even with a mask. Why not ethanol? So I am gonna stock up on all the 4011 I can find. It's predictable and so far hasn't spoiled any of my paint.

They really should have issued a recall. Being blindsided my regulations or labels I can totally get. Releasing a chemically different product with the same name, and not telling anyone until well after sales are in, is reprehensible.
 
HELLO EVERYONE !

At 11:43 am EST. this morning, I got off a phone call with Dennis in Createx tech department, ( it lasted 22 minutes, he was very nice and very helpful ) , all about this 4012 / 4013 reducer stuff. Since I can only take notes so fast and my short term memory sucks, with my pain and heart meds in me. This is the best I can recall of our little phone conversation. Forgive me if I got some little things wrong.

1: He said the 4012 will stay in production for at least 1 year, maybe 2 ... so we can stop sweating on that for the time being. Especially for me, after buying about 200 bottles of Createx paint and the racks, when the local craft store went under this past summer. I need time to stock up on the 4012 before it goes bye bye ! lol

2: They had to change from the 4012 because a new law in 2019 states that you must list any and all Prop 65 ( California whiners stuff ) on the labels of the product. One of their suppliers did not list the Prop 65 stuff, in the things Createx was getting from them to make products like the 4012.... so Createx did not know it was in the 4012 they were making. and ( possibly some of their paints from how I took it )..

3: The old 4012 was SHOCKING the NEW paint and screwing it up, so between the California Whiners Prop 65 law issue and shocking of the new paint issue , they had to reconfigure the mixture, which ended up as 4013.

4: The video link in the beginning of this thread is true, they are shipping the base 4013 mixture without the Iso to Aus., and it will work without the Iso, BUT it dries super super slow without the Iso The Iso helps the paint flow better, less tip dry and helps the paint adhesion better than the 4012. Dennis also said, they may sell it without the Iso here in the states, but he's not sure yet.

5: As for my issue of it being flammable. He said they have to mark it flammable because of the Iso in the mixture. Dennis said I'd pretty much have to shoot it directly into my furnace to get it to flash. because ONCE it was mixed with the paint it becomes harder to light off. So even in my situation of 8 to 10 feet from the furnace intake, I should be safe. Just DO NOT spray straight 4013 with the Iso into the air around an open flame , or across / into an open flame, the Iso will flash light even mixed with paint if sprayed directly into a flame.

Dennis also said 4013 is a really good reducer , better than the 4012 and we will really like it a lot. I tried to get them to come to the forum and post some info. He said they stay out of doing that, because they actually have Haters that cause them trouble. They don't even run their facebook page, they have someone else do that for them.

I hope this helps clear up some stuff. I know it's not a lot, but better than what I had in my mind, before the call.
Thank you for taking the time to update us all, its much appreciated.
Its not surprising that there was a change to the 4012.... way to many people were reporting issues, and I agree, a public announcement / recall or some sort of communication would have been nice of them.

I'm actually surprised that they will be selling the 4012 for a few more years considering the reported issues, and i'm now reasonably keen to try the 4013, with and without the iso.

I have all of the createx range and some date back to 2015, and different batches of 4012... so how am I to know what will work with what, .. oh yeah, lots of trial and error ! ! ! … and wasted product.

Maybe if they did have a presence here they could give us 'fact' instead of speculation and theory. I might have to try and convince them that this is a safe place and not facebook. we've had a few keyboard warriors in the past, they don't last long. !
 
[
So they DID change the forumla of both the paint and the reducer, and the old reducer is incompatible with the new paint.
How the hell do I know what is new what is old paint? I was planning to buy 960ml of red and 960 ml of blue. I already have 960ml of black,white,yellow,transparent base.

So when I will mix old paint and new paint I am screwed. If I hear new reducer is incompatible with old paint I am going with Etac or Golden flow, or some of many other brands which are available. I need consistency.

let me elaborate. I already have bunch of issues with airbrushing I don't need another battle fighting with my colors/paint and me solving mysteries which are basically job of createx not mine...
 
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How the hell do I know what is new what is old paint? I was planning to buy 960ml of red and 960 ml of blue. I already have 960ml of black,white,yellow,transparent base.

Exactly my issue. The bottling is the same and I have no means of telling how long my supplier had a particular bottle of paint. It means expensive trial and error. Not what I need from a product marketed at professionals.

I am probably not going to be buying any more product until this is sorted out and there is some mechanism for at least identifying incompatible mixes.

What happens if I need to mix colors and get two incompatible runs, or the reducer seeds one color but not the other?

What a mess.



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Well pushing 63 in just a few more days I can say I have painted one car with out a mask back in the 70's. without a mask but it was outside due too not having a garage. But I know all the rules came from all the years of auto painter and even house painters having lung issues from painting with out a mask.
Now may I suggest replacing the pisswater with moonshine and I want to see pics of the 37 when you get it done. I glad you're one of the lucky ones who doesn't have lung isaues


Hey @Mr.Micron , I'm open for a free shipment ( 1 gallon ) of shine, I'll let you know a month before I plan I painting the 37 , to give you time to ship it out.. for me to enjoy. Thanks old man lol :) AND A Very Happy Birthday to you !
 
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Exactly my issue. The bottling is the same and I have no means of telling how long my supplier had a particular bottle of paint. It means expensive trial and error. Not what I need from a product marketed at professionals.

I am probably not going to be buying any more product until this is sorted out and there is some mechanism for at least identifying incompatible mixes.

What happens if I need to mix colors and get two incompatible runs, or the reducer seeds one color but not the other?

What a mess.



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@Kim McCann

Hey Kim, I think they have changed the label design on the new paint, like they did on the 4013, But I'm not 100% sure. If you want I'll try and get a hold of Dennis again and ask, OR you can call and ask for Dennis in tech. the number is 1-800-243-2712. I don't want to call too many times and wear my welcome out. You could also email him at. dennis@createxcolors.com Then you can have it in writing and share it with the forum... so everybody has it.

I wish I would have thought of that when I had him on the line. Sorry, I could only think of so many questions. when I had him on the phone.
 
Heck ya ain't but a couple hour drive from me so ya might just get it hand delivered

@Mr.Micron ,

That is a great idea, but I could not let or ask anyone to do that. Besides at the rate the 37 is coming along, it could be another 8 years before paint. Remember I am handicapped myself and taking care of my 84 year old handicapped mother, and she has pack ratted the house and garage. She pretty much holds me back from doing just about anything to make the house / garage cleaner or better. He favorite lines for me doing anything around the house are " No you're not, it's in my name" and No you're not, they will raise my property taxes" with a little hint of " because I said No " thrown in the mix every once in a while. Basically, if I can't clean things out and fix up, I can't use the space, so no visitors or garage space. It's hard to argue with stupid people, but it's impossible to argue with really old and stubborn stupid people, no matter who they may be. But thank you very much for the possible hand delivered offer. Again I wish you an early Very Happy Birthday and many more ahead, full of health, wealth and happiness.
 
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Where's Rocket when we need him? He was really good at all this.
This is sorta a 4012/4013 thread. 4012, for me, was/is awesome... until it's not. Something must happen chemically or biologically that makes it go bad over time. Right now I'm willing to put up with it and I'm also willing to make my own.
4013 is of course "amazing and so much better than anything before it."
People have legitimate gripes with Createx and I'm sure that's why they stay off the forums.

If I had to do it all over again I would never have bought all the Createx I have and just stuck with ONE good company.. like Golden or E'tac. I would still cross over and get some 4012, though.
 
People have legitimate gripes with Createx and I'm sure that's why they stay off the forums.
I was thinking the same, I just didn't say it, cause Jackie sad we need to say to createx there are no haters here.

But issue is, for createx, haters can be people, which are giving them money and have legitimate critique about products they buy. I wonder what is their definition of word haters. I am not objective, cause they didn't respond to my mail and I look at them differently.

For god sake, Etac has their own forum...

If I had to do it all over again I would never have bought all the Createx I have and just stuck with ONE good company.. like Golden or E'tac. I would still cross over and get some 4012, though.

This is my main concern. I am in a place where I can have bunch of createx in the future. I am trying to buy bulk lately and mixing my own colors.

But I know you guys have bunch of different colors. I seen videos, pictures and such with racks full of different colors. And the more you get, the harder transition can be to other paint.

I can still get 2x 960ml and take the money hit, that's 115 Euros, and slowly start trying testing other colors. I wonder if Etac is selling 960ml?

If I would do all over again I would order small sets of primaries and additives from all the major manufacturers and tested which one is the best. Unfortunately createx tests would last for 6 months :laugh:

I spend many months testing how to make my t-shirts survive 60 degrees Celcius when you wash them, now they can screw all my invested time. On a good side, at least now I know, how to test the same stuff fast and reliably. But still, I hate changes if my t-shirt can get a ''hit'' when you put it in to the wash machine.

I can't imagine how this can affect someone which is spraying cars... Imagine, they realize later down the road, some mix of colors and additives are not so ''good'' and car art for few thousand $ get a ''hit'' and some weird stuff are starting to happen on the car art cause of sun for example. Or maybe even fart :laugh: Quite possible with createx lol

Does createx has labs where they do testing? Or are they putting solutions out of their khm khm khm...?


Sry for off topic all of you. I will try to correct this now.
I am sure 4013 will be much more better reducer then 4012, createx is trying to make things right. I can still buy few small bottles of 4012 and if one goes wrong, maybe I can be lucky and other will not. While you guys will be using 4013, I will wait for 4014 :laugh:
 
Where's Rocket when we need him? He was really good at all this.
This is sorta a 4012/4013 thread. 4012, for me, was/is awesome... until it's not. Something must happen chemically or biologically that makes it go bad over time. Right now I'm willing to put up with it and I'm also willing to make my own.
4013 is of course "amazing and so much better than anything before it."
People have legitimate gripes with Createx and I'm sure that's why they stay off the forums.

If I had to do it all over again I would never have bought all the Createx I have and just stuck with ONE good company.. like Golden or E'tac. I would still cross over and get some 4012, though.
I agree that people have legitimate reason to gripe about the behaviour of Createx products. The trouble is that angry people have a habit of attacking the messengers of the news they don’t want to hear.
- be mad at the problem , not the person!

@Husky, My definition of a hater is someone who starts ranting but has nothing constructive to add.
Example: “ your paint is poo, I’m never using it again, i’ll stick with (insert paint brand here)”

We are intelligent people with a common goal ... ... to airbrush. We should be able to convey our grievance without reverting to childish ‘I don’t like you any more’ attitude.

If ‘we’ (the end user) can give constructive feedback with FACT not feelings, then we may just be seen to a group of people that want to see improvements in a product that we use but have a love/hate relationship with.

I’m all for intelligent conversation and sensible debate. Can’t be bothered listening to keyboard warriors !!
 
@Husky, My definition of a hater is someone who starts ranting but has nothing constructive to add.
Example: “ your paint is poo, I’m never using it again, i’ll stick with (insert paint brand here)”
I wasn't worried about your definition. I know you to much for that. I was worried about createx ''people which are making paint definition''. :D
 
@Mr.Micron ,

That is a great idea, but I could not let or ask anyone to do that. Besides at the rate the 37 is coming along, it could be another 8 years before paint. Remember I am handicapped myself and taking care of my 84 year old handicapped mother, and she has pack ratted the house and garage. She pretty much holds me back from doing just about anything to make the house / garage cleaner or better. He favorite lines for me doing anything around the house are " No you're not, it's in my name" and No you're not, they will raise my property taxes" with a little hint of " because I said No " thrown in the mix every once in a while. Basically, if I can't clean things out and fix up, I can't use the space, so no visitors or garage space. It's hard to argue with stupid people, but it's impossible to argue with really old and stubborn stupid people, no matter who they may be. But thank you very much for the possible hand delivered offer. Again I wish you an early Very Happy Birthday and many more ahead, full of health, wealth and happiness.
Thanks for the early birthday wishes.
I come up through Akron about once a year on my way to the poconos So swing up to Cleveland in not a big deal. So when life allows you too get more done on that 37 just drop me a line who knows you may end up with a few gallons of shine
 
I agree that people have legitimate reason to gripe about the behaviour of Createx products. The trouble is that angry people have a habit of attacking the messengers of the news they don’t want to hear.
- be mad at the problem , not the person!

@Husky, My definition of a hater is someone who starts ranting but has nothing constructive to add.
Example: “ your paint is poo, I’m never using it again, i’ll stick with (insert paint brand here)”

We are intelligent people with a common goal ... ... to airbrush. We should be able to convey our grievance without reverting to childish ‘I don’t like you any more’ attitude.

If ‘we’ (the end user) can give constructive feedback with FACT not feelings, then we may just be seen to a group of people that want to see improvements in a product that we use but have a love/hate relationship with.

I’m all for intelligent conversation and sensible debate. Can’t be bothered listening to keyboard warriors !!
CODE PINK!! Lol


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