Createx 4013

Kim McCann said:
So they DID change the forumla of both the paint and the reducer, and the old reducer is incompatible with the new paint.

I cannot tell you how angry this makes me. I ruined 100's of dollars worth of wicked paint and was tearing my hair out, and could never figure out why my once go to Wicked Colors had become unreliable and borderline unusable. I just couldn't predict what bottle of what reducer with which bottle of paint was going to go bad on me. I have a cupboard full of wicked now that I am not sure if I can safely use, and not one bloody announcement about this on their website.

Well, it's easy to see why they complain about "haters". That was a really, really shifty thing to do. They should have made an announcement and possibly issued a recall.

For reasons that that are too long and complex to get into here, Isopropyl is an incredibly stupid additive to use in a spray situation. Even with a mask while painting, the particulates can remain in the air for up to 72 hours. This makes 4013 actually unusable for any indoor or home studio, even with a mask. Why not ethanol? So I am gonna stock up on all the 4011 I can find. It's predictable and so far hasn't spoiled any of my paint.

They really should have issued a recall. Being blindsided my regulations or labels I can totally get. Releasing a chemically different product with the same name, and not telling anyone until well after sales are in, is reprehensible.
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@Kim McCann

Hey Kim, I totally understand the mess they have created ( for us and themselves) by the path they chose to take. They should have come out with a totally new line, and told everyone they were dropping the old after the new took off, and why. It could have been the rebirth of an old company so to speak. That is why I posted Dennis's email and Createx phone number. If (we) all the users call and email with questions and complaints, maybe they will get the picture, and maybe we will finally get the answers we all have questions for. Everyone of us have a different question on this problem, because we are all different users and paint different things, like metal, paper, wood, you name it we can be painting it and in different places / locations, with different setups.

We can sit in here complaining to each other for years, but it won't help us. We need to contact them and voice our questions, to get the correct answers for our questions / problems.

I am shooting an email this morning to Dennis with some questions on 4013 working with the old paint, and how to tell the new paint from old paint bottles. I'll get the info here as soon as I hear from him.

I can't do it all, you all need to send emails. or call who knows maybe if enough of us send emails an/ or call, they will come to the forum and give us all the straight scoop on everything. Don't know until you try !
 
Spritz said:
@Kim McCann
I can't do it all, you all need to send emails. or call who knows maybe if enough of us send emails an/ or call, they will come to the forum and give us all the straight scoop on everything. Don't know until you try !
Click to expand...

Agreed. Thanks for posting the info @Spritz!

At least I know now why old and new bottles of paint or reducer were resulting in so many clogs and hair pulling. Sadly, I carefully looked and bottles of rarely used Wicked Colors I have from more than 5 years ago, and ones bought last month have exactly the same label. The only thing that has changed looking over my collection of bottles (I wash out and keep them for premixes, storing leftovers, etc) is the 4011 label and the W500 label being changed to 4012.

So, there was really no way for us to know about the reaction. I bet that Createx didn't either, until the product was out there.

I wrote a polite email explaining my troubles, and how it is extremely disingenuous to change the chemistry of a product and release it as the same product, and that in the future they should do what they did with Candy and put a version number on it. Candy 2.0 is not the same as Candy, and that labeling was the right thing to do. I've also asked what I do now to work with both new and old bottles and how to identify them.

Hopefully they get the message, and when changing things in the future, they at least version number OR date the product, so we know what we are getting.
 
Well I screwed up on that call BIG time I guess, I thought Dennis said New Paints, when he said a FEW paints. My meds and poor cell connections can really screw up info being relayed to me. Here is a copy and paste of what he said in the reply email.

1: "The new reducer is amazing and will work in all the paints.

2: Everything is intermixable

3: Not really going to get into anything about the formula as it really hasn’t changed only regular Createx and some Wicked colors have been effected by the new thickener.

4: The bigger problem is the solvent in 4012 well received in Europe and will also be a problem in the US. The 4011 and 4013 is going to be the go too reducer in all our products

5: Also 4011 is being recommended for Createx and all other products. You do not have to purchase 4013 as 4011 will work just as well.

6: Your questions are a bit over the top and really not even answerable (old paint new paint!)"

I don't fully understand the thickener part in line #3 and I'm not going to contact them again ( for a long time ). I get the feeling from this reply, that he was unhappy to hear from me a 2nd time so soon.

I'm sorry for any confusion or stress I may have caused anyone ! I'll stop playing middle man.
 
What I think it now boils down to is ‘try it and see’
Why ? Because what works for me down here in dry hot south Australia may not work for MacD in hot and humid Queensland or Spritz in Ohio.

I’ll reserve my 4012 for cleaning, use my 4011 as reducer until the 4013 becomes available.
 
I still feel with any product that actual long term testing in all types of condition will make happier customers in the long run.
I would rather have 90% of the kinks out of a system when it is released then trying to grab straws and make adjustments as problems come up for a lot of people.
But in this day in age all the companies want is your money.
Some of you may know that I have been installing a new HP engine in my Jeep. 2 months trouble shooting bad sensor(brand new mind you) before I could even get it running. After getting it running for a total of 5 minutes before the oil pressure went from 60 PSI to 0 due to a failed oil pump which was supposed to have been dino tested prior to shipment.
Well bottom line quality control on parts , paints or anything else we buy is out the window. I just received the replacement engine so now it is time to pull the bad one out and pray this one is build better.
In this case I really can not blame the engine builder I have to lay blame where it goes and that is the makers of the parts that make up the engine.
I too gave up talking to createx after I got seeding on both the 4011 and 4012 and was told to use the 4020. Seems as if they really do not was to fix what is wrong.The 4030 first came out as a carrier for the candy 2o and was billed as an intercoat. now we have 4040 4050 and the newest clear which have not been test for long term condition.
 
@Mr.Micron sorry to hear about the Jeep issues Herb! I hope you get that sorted out soon. Its depressing when you invest all that time and effort for nothing.

I wonder what might be going on behind the scenes at Createx. Maybe a supplier fell out? Maybe there was a price increase? It's hard to tell what could be causing issues. But yeah, they want our money so they try to make the best of it. Sounds like design by committee or something.
 
anybody have a clue what kinda colors Japanese airbrush artistis use? I am sure, they don't use createx, but I do know they have long history with airbrushing. So I do wonder what flows inside their airbrushes.




in the second video there is a can. Maybe paint? -.- Do we have any member from Japan?
 
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Hey, Boys, Girls and Nutballs, of all ages,

Below is just one of my crazy stupid ideas... take it with a grain ( OR MORE ) of salt.

I sent a Contact Us email to DNA Custom Paints tonight. With the Question of will the Trident premixed reducer or the reducer concentrate mix work with Createx Paints, like Createx Airbrush Colors and Wicked paint..and Speedball India Ink ( I use to airbrush with also ). I want to see if that could be an option for some of us, while Createx gets their stuff figured out. Plus the concentrate mix is a 1 part concentrate to 9 parts water, mix ratio. which means a 1 liter reducer concentrate bottle will make 10 liters of reducer or 10.566 U.S. Quarts. Createx reducer sells for about 23 bucks for a 1 quart / 32 oz. bottle. The Trident 1 liter concentrate is $ 60.50 on the DNA website, which is about 42.00 U.S.Dollars if the conversion is correct. ... plus shipping.
I also asked about any EPA paperwork that may need to be filled out / filed.

Here is a link to the page, you choose what you want in the drop downs.
https://www.dna-paints.com/shop/airbrush/trident-reducers/

I am waiting for a reply. If it is good I will let you know, If it is bad I will bury my head in the sand and stay out of sight for a while.. lol

DNA® paints are developed and manufactured in Melbourne, Australia. DNA® is 100% Australian owned and operated.
 
Spritz said:
Hey, Boys, Girls and Nutballs, of all ages,

Below is just one of my crazy stupid ideas... take it with a grain ( OR MORE ) of salt.

I sent a Contact Us email to DNA Custom Paints tonight. With the Question of will the Trident premixed reducer or the reducer concentrate mix work with Createx Paints, like Createx Airbrush Colors and Wicked paint..and Speedball India Ink ( I use to airbrush with also ). I want to see if that could be an option for some of us, while Createx gets their stuff figured out. Plus the concentrate mix is a 1 part concentrate to 9 parts water, mix ratio. which means a 1 liter reducer concentrate bottle will make 10 liters of reducer or 10.566 U.S. Quarts. Createx reducer sells for about 23 bucks for a 1 quart / 32 oz. bottle. The Trident 1 liter concentrate is $ 60.50 on the DNA website, which is about 42.00 U.S.Dollars if the conversion is correct. ... plus shipping.
I also asked about any EPA paperwork that may need to be filled out / filed.

Here is a link to the page, you choose what you want in the drop downs.
https://www.dna-paints.com/shop/airbrush/trident-reducers/

I am waiting for a reply. If it is good I will let you know, If it is bad I will bury my head in the sand and stay out of sight for a while.. lol

DNA® paints are developed and manufactured in Melbourne, Australia. DNA® is 100% Australian owned and operated.
Click to expand...
Trident is very hard to get in the USA , I was given a few samples when it first came out, 1 a couple of the colors Red and Green smelled like formaldehyde. 2 it does spray like a urethane but still had tipdry. 3 depending on how you reduced them they could act like a candy to a point.
Daniel Powers helped develop the paint system, If you look on youtube for an artist name Svee (awesome guitar artist by the way) he has a video of him testing Trident paints true 8 set.
 
Mr.Micron said:
I too gave up talking to createx after I got seeding on both the 4011 and 4012 and was told to use the 4020.
Click to expand...
Do You use pure 4020 or mixed with 4011/4012?
TDS says: "4020 is best added to 4012 in small increments. Excess amounts of 4020 may create adverse reactions (“solvent pop”) when the paint is top-coated with a catalyzed clear, especially when applying heavier coats with a spray-gun".
 
I use it straight as pwr what I was told by Createx in a call to them. I have yet to get solvent pop from doing so. Before that I was mixing 4012 and 4020 and it waa solvent pop city. But again what works for me in my area of the world may not work for you.
 
Spritz said:
Hey, Boys, Girls and Nutballs, of all ages,

Below is just one of my crazy stupid ideas... take it with a grain ( OR MORE ) of salt.

I sent a Contact Us email to DNA Custom Paints tonight. With the Question of will the Trident premixed reducer or the reducer concentrate mix work with Createx Paints, like Createx Airbrush Colors and Wicked paint..and Speedball India Ink ( I use to airbrush with also ). I want to see if that could be an option for some of us, while Createx gets their stuff figured out. Plus the concentrate mix is a 1 part concentrate to 9 parts water, mix ratio. which means a 1 liter reducer concentrate bottle will make 10 liters of reducer or 10.566 U.S. Quarts. Createx reducer sells for about 23 bucks for a 1 quart / 32 oz. bottle. The Trident 1 liter concentrate is $ 60.50 on the DNA website, which is about 42.00 U.S.Dollars if the conversion is correct. ... plus shipping.
I also asked about any EPA paperwork that may need to be filled out / filed.

Here is a link to the page, you choose what you want in the drop downs.
https://www.dna-paints.com/shop/airbrush/trident-reducers/

I am waiting for a reply. If it is good I will let you know, If it is bad I will bury my head in the sand and stay out of sight for a while.. lol

DNA® paints are developed and manufactured in Melbourne, Australia. DNA® is 100% Australian owned and operated.
Click to expand...

I was the TRIDENT North American Distributer and investigated bringing in the DNA line .... just a heads up importing it isn't the problem... shipping is, unless enough is ordered and they can ship via container which takes approximately 8 - 10 weeks, or longer if the "port" is backed up (usually is) . Once it "docks" then you have to make arrangements with a freight company to have it picked up (usually docks in California) and shipped to you. If you have it sent via "air" the cost was (4 years ago) crazy expensive even for just a small "kit" at least that was my experience... Don't forget about import fees and taxes as well, those fees can add up really quick too.

The bottom line of 4013 v. 4012 it's simply new regulations, newer more innovative ground breaking products. I have been testing along with many many others for the past 4 -5 months and the new clears and 4013 are awesome!

edit: 4012 will be phased out over time giving everyone an opportunity to switch over to which ever reducer they want 4011/4013/4020. I would recommend just getting a small bottle of the new 4013 see if you like it check it out... give it a chance.
 
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Maple Art said:
I was the TRIDENT North American Distributer and investigated bringing in the DNA line .... just a heads up importing it isn't the problem... shipping is, unless enough is ordered and they can ship via container which takes approximately 8 - 10 weeks, or longer if the "port" is backed up (usually is) . Once it "docks" then you have to make arrangements with a freight company to have it picked up (usually docks in California) and shipped to you. If you have it sent via "air" the cost was (4 years ago) crazy expensive even for just a small "kit" at least that was my experience... Don't forget about import fees and taxes as well, those fees can add up really quick too.

The bottom line of 4013 v. 4012 it's simply new regulations, newer more innovative ground breaking products. I have been testing along with many many others for the past 4 -5 months and the new clears and 4013 are awesome!

edit: 4012 will be phased out over time giving everyone an opportunity to switch over to which ever reducer they want 4011/4013/4020. I would recommend just getting a small bottle of the new 4013 see if you like it check it out... give it a chance.
Click to expand...
I’m looking forward to trying the UVLS clear with Candy2o. I recently got some 4011 that I quite like, but haven’t done a huge amount of testing with it yet.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
DaveG said:
I don't think the two products are compatible (createx and E'tac) as they use different alcohols as modifiers - that said, I will go try the 2050 with Createx and report back :thumbsup:
Click to expand...
yeah not a good combination, Water would be more preferable. the 4013 is a good product, it melted my black completely!
 
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