Micron vs. rest of the world

I still struggle with fine lines on hard surfaces. I own Iwata Hp-C+ 0.2 and I can paint really fine lines on traditional paper, but when surface is not absorbent my fine lines goes splatter. I know about paint reduction and psi reduction. I heard that Micron has better atomisation at low psi. Does the Micron make a significant difference on hard surfaces?

I hate to say it, but it’s either 1) poor trigger control, 2) excessively thinned mediums or 3) a combination of the two.

Depending on what you intend to paint, you might also pre-sand the surface with a fine grit sand paper to give the paint a little bit more adhesion to the workpiece. Hard, smooth surfaces will require a paint with a little bit more stickiness to quickly adhere to the surface without running or being blasted clear by the overspray. The vicious circle of this is that this usually requires a more viscous medium which limits just how fine a line you can spray and invariable requires a higher pressure to draw the medium from the color cup.

You will never achieve as fine a line as you will with water based paints like watercolors and gouaches on an illustration board. It’s just the limitations of the hardware. For automotive paints or enamels, you’re probably going to be very lucky to achieve a 0.7 mm or thinner line on a consistent basis.

You may have to spend a little time doing some trial and error with these techniques to determine empirically what is the best combination for the best results.
 
I hate to say it, but it’s either 1) poor trigger control, 2) excessively thinned mediums or 3) a combination of the two.

Depending on what you intend to paint, you might also pre-sand the surface with a fine grit sand paper to give the paint a little bit more adhesion to the workpiece. Hard, smooth surfaces will require a paint with a little bit more stickiness to quickly adhere to the surface without running or being blasted clear by the overspray. The vicious circle of this is that this usually requires a more viscous medium which limits just how fine a line you can spray and invariable requires a higher pressure to draw the medium from the color cup.

You will never achieve as fine a line as you will with water based paints like watercolors and gouaches on an illustration board. It’s just the limitations of the hardware. For automotive paints or enamels, you’re probably going to be very lucky to achieve a 0.7 mm or thinner line on a consistent basis.

You may have to spend a little time doing some trial and error with these techniques to determine empirically what is the best combination for the best results.

I wonder why my crappy paasche talon 0.3 performs finer lines than hpc+ 0.2 under the same conditions?
 
I wonder why my crappy paasche talon 0.3 performs finer lines than hpc+ 0.2 under the same conditions?
Exactly. I know that others think I am crazy, but I swear the hpc needs to move more air to get paint flowing. You never notice it on paper or porous surfaces but on plastic and non porus surfaces you have to have a LOT more trigger control to avoid spidering. It's doable, just much harder than with other brushes I have.

DaveG pointed out I had a .2 conversion installed on mine and that the original needle cap might be the reason I need extra ait flow to get paint moving.

Sent from my SM-N920W8 using Tapatalk
 
Exactly. I know that others think I am crazy, but I swear the hpc needs to move more air to get paint flowing. You never notice it on paper or porous surfaces but on plastic and non porus surfaces you have to have a LOT more trigger control to avoid spidering. It's doable, just much harder than with other brushes I have.

DaveG pointed out I had a .2 conversion installed on mine and that the original needle cap might be the reason I need extra ait flow to get paint moving.

Sent from my SM-N920W8 using Tapatalk
that makes sense, larger cap hole gives more volume and less psi on exit, so it needs more air.
 
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that makes sense, larger cap hole gives more volume and less psi on exit, so it needs more air.

After a bit more fooling around I will go as far to say tha the HP-C Plus will perform better with the stock .3 nozzle installed, than with a .2 conversion without a .2 nozzle cap. The .3 set up works very nicely at low pressure(s) in comparison to the .2 conversion using the stock .3 nozzle cap.
 
interesting that there is no hpc+ 0.2 version (H2 head system) on the official iwata website. There is also user information, it says that only 0.3 nozzle/needle/cap (H3 head system) is suited for hpc+. Does anyone know if the original H3 needle cap fits the replaced H2 nozzle cap for sure? All these parts have different catalog numbers for 0.2 and 0.3 system.
 

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interesting that there is no hpc+ 0.2 version (H2 head system) on the official iwata website. There is also user information, it says that only 0.3 nozzle/needle/cap (H3 head system) is suited for hpc+. Does anyone know if the original H3 needle cap fits the replaced H2 nozzle cap for sure? All these parts have different catalog numbers for 0.2 and 0.3 system.

I covered that earlier in this thread. The H2 nozzle cap will not fit the HP-C+. You need the nozzle cap for the Iwata HP-AH, or HP-BH (highline brushes). Sorry, I do not know the part number off hand.

The Iwata HP, and HP Plus series brushes in A, B, and SB have a smaller diameter body than the HP-C and HP-C+. Therefore the heads are smaller - the Highline series brushes are all the same diameter as the "C" brushes...
 
Yeah, the H2 head options only appear in the manuals for the HP-A and B series and the High Line (ex: HP-CH) series. (parts: I0807 - needle, Io751 - nozzle, and I1401 - cap). The cap won't fit on the HP-C.
 
You know what they say about pictures... I grabbed 4 brushes to help illustrate the details here. Starting in the back, is an Iwata HP-C Plus, an Iwata HP-BH, an Iwata HP-AH (which uses the same nozzle, nozzle cap, and needle cap as the HP-BH above it), with an Iwata HP-B in the front.

4-brushes1.jpg

The Iwata HP-B is based on a smaller diameter body. This makes the head threads a smaller diameter than the three other brushes displayed here. The 3 others start life with one common body blank, and are all the same diameter. Here is the Iwata HP-B, the arrow showing the threaded portion diameter as measured on the calipers -
HP-B_thread-diameter1.jpg

Next up, the Iwata HP-C Plus (the HP-C is also the same) - again, arrow indicating thread diameter as measured on the caliper.
HP-C_thread-diameter1.jpg

Iwata HP-AH (Highline) The HP-BH is the same as well -
HP-AH_thread-diameter1.jpg

Here are the nozzle caps side by side. The Iwata HP-C Plus, and the Iwata HP-AH are the same diameter, while the Iwata HP-B is smaller -
3-nozzle-caps.jpg

Here is the Iwata HP-C Plus with the stock .3 nozzle cap installed. Note that the knurled portion is one single row.
hpc-plus-head1.jpg

Here is the same Iwata HP-C Plus with the nozzle cap of the Iwata HP-AH installed. Note the knurled portion is divided into two rows. The HP-C Plus .3 nozzle cap has an exit bore of @0.81mm, while the HP-AH .2 cap has an exit bore of @0.68mm.
hpc-plus-head2.jpg

I do not think Iwata ever bundled a nozzle cap with the .2 conversion. I do know of a couple of vendors that pushed using the needle cap from the .2 as part of the conversion, but to me that is an absolute waste of money, and not needed. As you guys have discovered for yourselves, changing just the nozzle, and needle from .3 to .2 on an Iwata HP-C Plus brush is a recipe for creating a brush that under-performs. Using the .2 nozzle cap maintains the proportions that make the .2 set up work so well on all the other brushes it is found on.
 
I covered that earlier in this thread. The H2 nozzle cap will not fit the HP-C+. You need the nozzle cap for the Iwata HP-AH, or HP-BH (highline brushes). Sorry, I do not know the part number off hand.

The Iwata HP, and HP Plus series brushes in A, B, and SB have a smaller diameter body than the HP-C and HP-C+. Therefore the heads are smaller - the Highline series brushes are all the same diameter as the "C" brushes...
great thanks for your commitment.
Iwata websiste info says that hp-bh has the H2 head system. Manual claims that H3 nozzle cap for hp-bh is Optional, and I think it's because H3 nozzle cap should have larger hole so it is not that issue, hpc+ is 0,3 out of the factory, so 0,2 (H2) nozzle cap has too tight hole for a factory 0,3 (H3) nozzle in this case and that's why it isn't mentioned as option.
My hpc+ nozzle cap is the one-row one but the hole in the cap is smaller than my eclipse 0.3
 

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great thanks for your commitment.
Iwata websiste info says that hp-bh has the H2 head system.
My hpc+ nozzle cap is the one-row one but the hole in the cap is smaller than my eclipse 0.3


I don't know about the new Iwata codes, but can assure you that if that is the same part # as the HP-B part, it will not fit the HP-C+... The original part code for the HP-A,B and SB was I 140-1 (indicated in the screenshot you provided next to the H2,) but, the cap for the HP-BH highline is I 140-7.

The Eclipse is a .35, and is a different animal all together, and should not be compared directly with the specs on the HP series... apples and oranges.
 
I don't know about the new Iwata codes, but can assure you that if that is the same part # as the HP-B part, it will not fit the HP-C+... The original part code for the HP-A,B and SB was I 140-1 (indicated in the screenshot you provided next to the H2,) but, the cap for the HP-BH highline is I 140-7.
good point, eclipse is 0,35.
in the latest manual hp-bh nozzle cap is the same as hp-b: l1401 (H2).
 
in the latest manual hp-bh nozzle cap is the same as hp-b: l1401 (H2).

I have given you all the info I can. Unless they changed the HP-B this past year, the HP-B, and HP-BH do not take the same nozzle cap... I showed you photo's of both of them.

I'll add that due to the fact that Iwata does not manufacture any of these brushes directly, it is highly unlikely anything changed on them in terms of construction.
 
The HP-B and the HP-B+ are the same brush, with the addition of a pre-set handle on the plus model. They have also updated the thread pitch on the nozzle itself on the plus model, but that is it. The body blank on the HP-B, and HP-B+ are the same and are not the same as the HP-BH... I have all of them ;). Do you need photos?
 
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