jord001
Air-Valve Autobot!
Thats the only thing I could think of too, as its water based it needs a tooth to grip to.
Lee
Createx reducers ??????
- Thread starter RichardH
- Start date
Thats the only thing I could think of too, as its water based it needs a tooth to grip to.
Lee
Maple Art
Mac-Valve Maestro!
The UVLS Gloss Clear as an adhesion promoter: I would guess that polished metal feral was just painted - not cleaned before painting. I don't have pictures on hand, but thought I would share my experience with it. when I received the new UVLS in my shop, I painted everything with the Gloss Clear that I could think of, I wanted to see if it would really "stick" to what they said it would. I cleaned the items with mineral spirts, using 4011 as a reducer in my Eclipse CS airbrush. I painted a game controller/shot glass/plastic lawn ornament/dollar store toys (various things)/raw sheet metal/Aluminium all kinds of things.
The key with using the UVLS Gloss Clear as an adhesion promoter was the cure time 72 hours. I have all these things on display and many have tried to remove it and it is not going anywhere. It really performed well! When I painted a base coat on some of the items I just based them.
The key with using the UVLS Gloss Clear as an adhesion promoter was the cure time 72 hours. I have all these things on display and many have tried to remove it and it is not going anywhere. It really performed well! When I painted a base coat on some of the items I just based them.
Mine was cleaned with anti silicone degreaser. Probably needs more layers. I'll give another try.
Juanma
Needle-chuck Ninja
I would like to revive this thread because I have a 480 ml 4012 bottle. I saw a video of a person on YouTube who claimed that using this bottle as a reducer is not a good option. As previously someone suggested as a joke in this thread, it can be used as a cleaner. This guy said the alcohol content in the reducer can harm your artwork. I am not sure what to believe and I am feeling a bit confused.
DaveG
Airbush Analyst
4012 has been discontinued. For me, I think it was the best reducer they made for Createx Illustration Colors. That said, it did have its potential issues. The reducer does indeed contain a mixture of alcohols commonly used in acrylic paints. Due to a change in shipping restrictions within the US and globally, I am pretty sure they had to attempt to compound the mixture themselves rather than purchasing a stable, pre-mixed supply. The new mixture became unstable over time, and seemingly with extreme temperature changes.
I used to open a bottle, use it for a few weeks with joy, and then all of a sudden start having all kinds of issues with my paint, and process. Thinking about potential causes, I started to test my paint at the start of every session. What I found is that I could open a bottle of 4012 reducer and it would work great for a period of time, and then one day produce the results below. Occasionally I would get a bottle that would cause the polymerization immediately upon opening. So, my method of dealing with it was to just buy 4012 in them smallest bottles available, and test before each session.
Myself, and plenty of other really fantastic artists used 4012 without issue for a long time. I can assure you, as long as it was in good order, it would never cause damage to the artwork. I personally would try a sample and it is working the way it should, I would not hesitate to use it.
Same bottle of paint, two different bottles of 4012. I had been using the bottle of 4012 mixed into the paint on the left for several weeks prior to this day without issue. As soon as I saw this result I opened a fresh bottle and mixed the sample on the right.
Here you can see how the paint polymerized when 4012 was introduced. Once broken like this, it is a done deal...it will get stuck in the brush, on the needle, the nozzle, everywhere it is allowed to get into.
Nada
Air-Valve Autobot!
If it hasn't gone bad it will be fine with lots of paint. Even if its evaporated a bit it will still probably be fine.
The main active ingredient in 4012 reducer is Butoxy Ethanol (no big secret it is literally written on the bottle)
If you buy trident reducer. Ironically you get a bottle of concentrate which is :::drumroll::: Butoxy ethanol.
Butoxy ethanol is outright banned in a few countries now... so if your wondering why you cant buy trident in your country
there ya go. Im not even sure how they got around shipping it to the USA, some states have banned its use.
It ALSO used to be an active ingredient in windex... which is how the horrible practice of windex as a reducer came about..
Windex does not contain that product anymore. Most cleaners have now removed it after decades.
4012 can cause seeding with some of the new createx paints. But that had very little bearing on why they stopped selling it.
It has to do with the logistics nightmare of where it can be shipped and where it cannot... along with the new labeling required
by environmental regulations.
Any supplier who still has 4012 on the shelf can still sell the stock. so you will see it crop up here and there But if you do see it at a supplier you know its been there a while. Createx has not shipped it out in a good bit.
As for why it started seeding. to cut through all the theories. Resin technology changes. Some of the resins manufacturers were using for paint became no longer available. IE some paint lines were affected. So a bottle of CI you bought in 2018 is not the same formula of CI you would buy today. The wicked from early versions to now are changed.. Improved vastly in that time. Another reason for seeding can be leaving a bottle open.. the water evaporates leaving behind a more potent concoction.
If you think your 4012 is too stong thin it with distilled water.. (deionized would be even better if you have that option because its cleaner and slightly less acidic) And dont mix your original bottle. make a seperate container. OR mix some 4011 with the 4012 is an even better option it wont blow up I promise.
SOOOO Key takeaways here.
1 whomever said 4012 will ruin your art is clueless.
2 paints change over time.
3 environmental regulations affect what we do.
4 and this is one of the few "homebrews" that make sense.
If you have trident concentrate..
Mix up a batch and add in a touch of retarder (propolyne glycol and glycerin if you have it or ANY retarder from either golden or createx or solid reputable companies) And you will have a pretty close behaving reducer to the original 4012.
5 Trident sprays like excrement with water... but works with 4012 wonderfully (and with their own reducer)
And of course use your own judgement and follow all proper safety requirements whenever playing with paint or reducers.
Juanma
Needle-chuck Ninja
Thank you both for taking the time to respond. When I have used the 4012 I haven't noticed any problems, but after seeing some videos on Youtube advising not to use it I started to worry. I airbrush for myself but I didn't want to ruin paint either. Now I know I don't have to throw my bottle away (I have 4011 and distilled water to mix just in case), although I'll check it before using it. Again, thank you very much.
Nada
Air-Valve Autobot!
I did fail to mention.. the 4030 fiasco was in part due to bottles. While to us it doesn't seem like a plastic bottle could be different... there is the possibility some of the 4012 was affected by the same bottle supply issue that caused them headaches with 4030
Which is my way of saying product can go bad even if unopened.
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Small gas molecules, such as hydrogen, oxygen, and even water vapor are constantly diffusing through polymers. They are small enough fit in between the amorphous polymer backbone chains and can cause issues for real life products. Likewise, there are additives, such as plasticizers, that are mobile and move through polymer.
- Plasticizers diffuse out of the polymer and leave the material less elastic and more brittle. For example, that new car smell is plasticizers leaving your dashboard and making it more vulnerable to cracking.
- Oxygen permeates through packaging and reduces shelf life, thus spoiling food contained within. Oxygen can also leak through seals in packaging; an EWI spin-off, UltraThinSeal, has found that ultrasonic seals for potato chip bags allow less oxygen than heat seals, see Figure 1.
- Hydrogen absorbs into elastomers seals for pumps and storage containers which can cause catastrophic failure during decompression due to supersaturation and foaming.
- Water vapor (humidity) permeates into packaging and cakes dry powder products like sugar or changes the composition of fluids like brake fluid.
- Water vapor permeates out of packaging leaving liquid products with decreased volume and/or increased concentration in liquid medicines.
- Water vapor absorbs into a plastic that is ultrasonically welded leading to voids and """
Juanma
Needle-chuck Ninja
Wow! Then, it's not as easy as it seems, I mean, it's not just the product goes well or bad, it can be affected by several external and internal issues, even now I'm realizing I have a lot of humidity at home (85% sometimes) and I'm not living on the coast (building problems). Thanks a million for opening my eyes. By the way, sorry for my English, it's not my language, I'm also learning it, apart from airbrushing.
