Which Parts Make for a Better Airbrush?

J

Johnny

Double Actioner
For those of you who might be getting tired of me - hope not though.

I experimented a little today and realized that my Master G233 nozzles and needles fit the Iwata Eclipse.
Note, I didn't spray the Iwata with the Master needle(s) or valves. I was quite nervous. Didn't want to jack up a new airbrush.

So - my question is what, exactly, makes the Iwata Eclipse behave so superior? Overall tolerances? Needle/nozzle quality? All of the above?

Does any of that make sense?

Ponz

ps - Did I mention that this HP CS is the bomb?
 
professionals pick brand name brushes because they are reliable and consistent, parts are easily available.

when they are clean, the trigger will spray paint at the same pull point so they know what to expect.
generics can be a little 'loose' so there will be a difference each time you pull the trigger.
They are engineered to finer tolerances
 
1st, the silver nozzle on the Eclipse is not meant to be removed from the brass carrier. It should never be unscrewed from the brass.

2nd - about performance - the most critical features in regard to performance of any brush are the relationship between the nozzle, the nozzle cap, and the needle. The Eclipse has a much better relationship between these three items than the Chinese build does. More specifically, the Eclipse is assembled more accurately, and precisely then the Chinese counterpart. There is also more attention to the final details in the Japanese build...
 
DaveG said:
1st, the silver nozzle on the Eclipse is not meant to be removed from the brass carrier. It should never be unscrewed from the brass.

2nd - about performance - the most critical features in regard to performance of any brush are the relationship between the nozzle, the nozzle cap, and the needle. The Eclipse has a much better relationship between these three items than the Chinese build does. More specifically, the Eclipse is assembled more accurately, and precisely then the Chinese counterpart. There is also more attention to the final details in the Japanese build...
Click to expand...


Do you have a theory why the Eclipse line.. and this is an opinion.. just behaves SOOO good? There is a reason most of the pros use the eclipse as their base brush, and some times, their only brush.

I have used ALOT of brushes, not nearly as many as you. I have used them in various states of knowledge and quality of paints. BUT nothing has ever performed as well as my Eclipses.. except for the Micron.. the God brush.

I've even re-purchased airbrush models just to see if I gave them a fair shake. Back to the "for sale" section they went.
 
DaveG said:
1st, the silver nozzle on the Eclipse is not meant to be removed from the brass carrier. It should never be unscrewed from the brass.

2nd - about performance - the most critical features in regard to performance of any brush are the relationship between the nozzle, the nozzle cap, and the needle. The Eclipse has a much better relationship between these three items than the Chinese build does. More specifically, the Eclipse is assembled more accurately, and precisely then the Chinese counterpart. There is also more attention to the final details in the Japanese build...
Click to expand...
*****************

Oops!

(22) How to DISASSEMBLE & REASSEMBLE your Iwata ECLIPSE Airbrush - YouTube
 
As already stated, build quality is a biggie. One of the things that helped me decide my Master brush, while it does function, was not going to get used much was the fact that after assembling the back end of the brush with everything tight, I could still move things that shouldn't be moving when they are screwed together. As someone just starting out, I wanted to make sure that any problems I ran into were caused by something I did wrong, not the fault of inferior equipment, so I upgraded.

Things I am doing wrong can be corrected with practice. I can't fix bad engineering.
 
Johnny said:
*****************

Oops!
Click to expand...
Oops is right, even in the comments of that video someone has corrected her with a direct quote from Iwata
"For Iwata Eclipse airbrushes (compression fit nozzle): The nozzle (4) for the Eclipse BS, SBS and CS is a set and SHOULD NEVER BE SEPARATED. DO NOT USE the Iwata Nozzle Wrench on compression fit nozzles."

although I do question why the nozzle has the indents for a wrench if its a compression fit !
 
Leakyvalve said:
Do you have a theory why the Eclipse line.. and this is an opinion.. just behaves SOOO good? There is a reason most of the pros use the eclipse as their base brush, and some times, their only brush.

I have used ALOT of brushes, not nearly as many as you. I have used them in various states of knowledge and quality of paints. BUT nothing has ever performed as well as my Eclipses.. except for the Micron.. the God brush.

I've even re-purchased airbrush models just to see if I gave them a fair shake. Back to the "for sale" section they went.
Click to expand...

In all honestly - I think it is a personal preference thing. I have done a lot of testing, by using digital equipment, high magnification, etc, - examining how brushes work. I have also read many, many accounts of what brush works best for individuals, after all their own testing - just like you have done. There is no one winner once a brush is put into someones hands. Every person seems to find the "one" that works best for them.

There is no secret to the Eclipse. It's specs in terms of air flow, nozzle opening, nozzle cap opening, nozzle protrusion, needle taper, all the working bits, are nothing spectacular in themselves, and shared by several other brushes.
 
Last edited:
JackEb said:
Oops is right, even in the comments of that video someone has corrected her with a direct quote from Iwata
"For Iwata Eclipse airbrushes (compression fit nozzle): The nozzle (4) for the Eclipse BS, SBS and CS is a set and SHOULD NEVER BE SEPARATED. DO NOT USE the Iwata Nozzle Wrench on compression fit nozzles."

although I do question why the nozzle has the indents for a wrench if its a compression fit !
Click to expand...

The .35 nozzle on the Eclipse has the wrench flats because it is a nozzle used in several brushes - and not unique to just the Eclipse. Prior to a change in production, the .35 nozzles were formed from one piece (brass) just like the .5. Due to the method of assembly during manufacturing, it would be very easy to have the nozzle mis-align upon reassembly if not tightened to exactly where it was in the first place. They are not meant to be taken apart.
 
DaveG said:
The .35 nozzle on the Eclipse has the wrench flats because it is a nozzle used in several brushes - and not unique to just the Eclipse. Prior to a change in production, the .35 nozzles were formed from one piece (brass) just like the .5. Due to the method of assembly during manufacturing, it would be very easy to have the nozzle mis-align upon reassembly if not tightened to exactly where it was in the first place. They are not meant to be taken apart.
Click to expand...

Any idea what made them do that.. the double nozzle idea? Seems like an extra step and more expensive than a brass one piece. Could they not get the angles they wanted with a brass piece?
 
Leakyvalve said:
Any idea what made them do that.. the double nozzle idea? Seems like an extra step and more expensive than a brass one piece. Could they not get the angles they wanted with a brass piece?
Click to expand...

I do not know what prompted the change. I suspect there was a high failure rate, or discard rate in the manufacturing process - they don't make changes to spend more money ;).
 
DaveG said:
I do not know what prompted the change. I suspect there was a high failure rate, or discard rate in the manufacturing process - they don't make changes to spend more money ;).
Click to expand...

Another thing that is funny.. being that the Eclipse is so popular... there aren't any copies. Nobody doing "Iwata" rip offs are using self centering nozzles. There is no direct Eclipse copy. I know you said Creos has something, but without that nozzle setup it seems like they would all be closer to existing models like the revolution series (which I like and have several of those).
The Eclipse also has a needle design you wouldn't think could do the detail it can. That double taper is super short compared to your typical .3mm Iwata taper.
 
Leakyvalve said:
Another thing that is funny.. being that the Eclipse is so popular... there aren't any copies. Nobody doing "Iwata" rip offs are using self centering nozzles. There is no direct Eclipse copy. I know you said Creos has something, but without that nozzle setup it seems like they would all be closer to existing models like the revolution series (which I like and have several of those).
The Eclipse also has a needle design you wouldn't think could do the detail it can. That double taper is super short compared to your typical .3mm Iwata taper.
Click to expand...

well, if we want to be fair, the Eclipse was introduced to compete against the Paasche VL (specifically in the t-shirt field). At the same time Thayer Chandler introduced the Vega, and Badger the Crescendo - all of which have drop in, self centering nozzles. There are lots of European models that feature drop in, self centering nozzles that pre-date Iwata in its entirety ;). Sagola (out of Spain) and Elaga out of Brazil both have head assemblies that are very similar to the Eclipse. Thayer Chandler Omni...
 
DaveG said:
well, if we want to be fair, the Eclipse was introduced to compete against the Paasche VL (specifically in the t-shirt field). At the same time Thayer Chandler introduced the Vega, and Badger the Crescendo - all of which have drop in, self centering nozzles. There are lots of European models that feature drop in, self centering nozzles that pre-date Iwata in its entirety ;). Sagola (out of Spain) and Elaga out of Brazil both have head assemblies that are very similar to the Eclipse. Thayer Chandler Omni...
Click to expand...

That does make sense. They all exploded that design onto the market at the same time. So Iwata stole the idea it sounds like.
 
Leakyvalve said:
That does make sense. They all exploded that design onto the market at the same time. So Iwata stole the idea it sounds like.
Click to expand...

"stole the idea..." Paasche started making conical, self centering nozzles in the very early part of the 20th century, while Iwata did not get into airbrushes until the mid 60's. Iwata is a very good marketing company, that markets very good quality equipment, but they have very little to do with any real innovation in airbrushing ;).
 
Leakyvalve said:
Any idea what made them do that.. the double nozzle idea? Seems like an extra step and more expensive than a brass one piece. Could they not get the angles they wanted with a brass piece?
Click to expand...
DaveG said:
I do not know what prompted the change. I suspect there was a high failure rate, or discard rate in the manufacturing process - they don't make changes to spend more money ;).
Click to expand...

Dave, what about this idea. They already made the brass nozzle for the 0.5 and the 0.35 nozzle for an other model. Aren't they just using the same nozzle of the 0.5 and just machine it to fit the nozzle?
 
AndreZA said:
Dave, what about this idea. They already made the brass nozzle for the 0.5 and the 0.35 nozzle for an other model. Aren't they just using the same nozzle of the 0.5 and just machine it to fit the nozzle?
Click to expand...

I don't really know, but suspect you're correct about using the same nozzle as a base.
 
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