.2mm vs. .3mm HP-CH observation

crewchief227

Needle-chuck Ninja
So I just swapped my CH back to the original .3mm setup, and was surprised by what I noticed, as it seems totally backwards. The .3mm needle (without the guard on of course) protrudes way further out the nozzle than the .2mm!? Remember I had the conversion set I got at Coast with the double row of knurling on the air cap. And you can see the difference in the air cap holes as well, it was definatly a .2mm, the needle definitely a .2mm as it is the 1.2mm wire stock, and the .3mm is 1.4mm stock. I changed it back cause I just didn't like the trigger response, and now that I see the obvious longer taper on the .3mm it makes sense, but it shouldn't in the world of airbrush nozzles. Any insights as to why out there?
 
Interesting indeed. I have also noticed differences in how much needles protrude. I would imagine it must be directly related to the taper making contact inside the nozzle. I prefer more needle showing. I’m curious to hear what others have to say about this. I installed a .2mm needle in my .35 eclipse to achieve more needle showing. The .2 for a ps-267 is the larger diameter needle so fits eclipse/hp etc.

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I think you just thought it would be different ;). The .3 protrudes further than a .2, and the .2 protrudes further than a .18... at least in Iwata, with a needle that has a double taper. Olympos Needles are pretty much the opposite, maybe even the V1 H&S needle that tended to have a straighter, single taper...

1st pict is a HP-C+ on the left, HP-B+ on the right. Second pict is a .18 Conversion on an HP-B on the left, and the HP-B+ on the right.
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is that a V1 micron head? The line across the nozzle cap is normally on the .23 head, and the V1 has a longer needle taper (more needle protrusion) than a v2.
 
I think we all did. Is the .2 conversion not the original poor man’s micron?



Ever do a .3 conversion on a micron?
"poor man's micron" ... I have never really understood what this meant :p. If it was an effort to create a version of the brush that would produce finer detail, well, OK, that is understandable. A .2 should produce finer lines than a .3... but, it is not a Micron. I think the way the air is processed through a Microns head is what makes it a Micron, and I am not sure you can create the same sort of results out of anything else. This does not mean by default that it is "best" - everyone will have their own "best", and that is the brush that fits their style of working, desired air pressure, paint reduction, etc. more easily than any other brush.

Nah, I could see no reason to put a .3 on a Micron. Will mention though, that the removable head on the HP TH has a multi hole head design, and comes standard as a .5.
 
"poor man's micron" ... I have never really understood what this meant :p. If it was an effort to create a version of the brush that would produce finer detail, well, OK, that is understandable. A .2 should produce finer lines than a .3... but, it is not a Micron. I think the way the air is processed through a Microns head is what makes it a Micron, and I am not sure you can create the same sort of results out of anything else. This does not mean by default that it is "best" - everyone will have their own "best", and that is the brush that fits their style of working, desired air pressure, paint reduction, etc. more easily than any other brush.

Nah, I could see no reason to put a .3 on a Micron. Will mention though, that the removable head on the HP TH has a multi hole head design, and comes standard as a .5.

Haha. Well, I have a poor
Man’s micron (my hp-c is a .2 setup) and a couple real Microns. I noticed the difference :) I can even feel and hear the difference between S3 and L3 heads. The L3 is definitely louder with higher psi. S3 head makes me think of spray guns that are 25 psi to the gun but only 10 psi at the air cap.

That’s interesting about the TH. I’ve never used one of those. Now I’m curious.
 
I noticed the difference :) I can even feel and hear the difference between S3 and L3 heads. The L3 is definitely louder with higher psi. S3 head makes me think of spray guns that are 25 psi to the gun but only 10 psi at the air cap.

yeah, as you know, I have been playing A BUNCH with Microns, and I can pretty much tell exactly what set up the brush has in it as soon as I start spraying with it.
 
yeah, as you know, I have been playing A BUNCH with Microns, and I can pretty much tell exactly what set up the brush has in it as soon as I start spraying with it.


Must be nice to have so many to compare :D Your explorations will go down in airbrush history.
 
Must be nice to have so many to compare :D Your explorations will go down in airbrush history.
"Nice "- yes, it is - but, it was a lot of hard work getting them! Sometimes it is fun to just go in the studio, and take out something older, and just sit down and enjoy the experience. I love the stuff from the 20's, 30's and 40's, that is for sure.

In the end, though, I feel people spend too much time worrying about what is "best", rather than just learning to use what they have.
 
I have a CM-SB2 & CM-C+V2, and the CH with the .2 & .3 obviously, but after painting all day on the .3mm, I can say I'm probably gonna keep it that way. It just seems to have a better response, and I can get some pretty fine detail, almost Micron level, but Microns the HP-A/B/C(H) are not. Going back and forth between all three usually daily, the Micron trigger is so damn smooth feeling, and responsive. The High Performance & High Lines are nice, waaayyyy nicer than I expected over a HP-CS, but if you know airbrushes, and can appreciate the feel of a Micron, well let's just say their is a reason they have been the gold standard for so long. :D
 
It is not difficult to get the exact same trigger feeling in the HP series as found in the Micron - I do it every day of the week :malicious:
If anyone wanted to do it themselves, they can get real close by using all of the back end pieces from a Micron. Spring retainer, Spring adjuster, spring, etc. Stick a Micron, or Micron style handle on the back, and make sure your needle packing is adjusted properly, and you can adjust for a sublime trigger feel. These, the HP's, should not be underestimated - they work exceptionally well once they are made to "feel" right ;)

hp_b-dg1.jpg
 
It is not difficult to get the exact same trigger feeling in the HP series as found in the Micron... Stick a Micron, or Micron style handle on the back


I attempted to put v2 micron tail parts on hp-c Classic and didn't work.
 
This does not mean by default that it is "best" - everyone will have their own "best", and that is the brush that fits their style of working, desired air pressure, paint reduction, etc. more easily than any other brush

Yes yes yes for me it is the Olympos-200A/B that you pointed me with the combo 0.2 from iwata as you did in your Facebook, it is a pleasure to paint with them and they are cheap!![emoji1319] I will always be gratefull for that[emoji854]



Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk[/QUOTE]
 
It is not difficult to get the exact same trigger feeling in the HP series as found in the Micron - I do it every day of the week :malicious:
If anyone wanted to do it themselves, they can get real close by using all of the back end pieces from a Micron. Spring retainer, Spring adjuster, spring, etc. Stick a Micron, or Micron style handle on the back, and make sure your needle packing is adjusted properly, and you can adjust for a sublime trigger feel. These, the HP's, should not be underestimated - they work exceptionally well once they are made to "feel" right ;)

View attachment 58346
So I would have to put that handle screw piece from the Micron into the body of the CH to convert the handle from Male to female, get a spring adjuster, and is the Micron needle guide longer or shorter? Ah hell I could just measure, and swap around them myself, just to test if it's worth it. ;) I do have a spare HP handle, I was thinking of an experiment, grind down the threads to just enough to seat in the CH so I can leave the adjuster farther back. I can't do the handeless thing, the balance, and how the chuck rests in my big hands is a no-go. Also, I hate the new one piece guide/aux leaver design. I have it down on getting an aux leaver seated, and prefer the two piece. Maybe I'm just picky, but I do probably paint more on a daily basis than 99% of the people on here. My Microns have 1,000's of hours on them, are broke in, brassed up, and I'm just used to their feel. The CH barely has 60-70 hours on it. Don't get me wrong, I love, love the way it sprays, but the trigger leaves more to be desired.
 
is that a V1 micron head? The line across the nozzle cap is normally on the .23 head, and the V1 has a longer needle taper (more needle protrusion) than a v2.
Also good catch, I had an "issue" with my V2 SB air cap, and temporarily borrowing a spare cap from my V1 C+, but later with more digging in my parts bin I was able to find another V2 .18 head, so it's swapped back. Right now both my Microns are spraying pretty good, but I have replaced so many nozzles, air caps, and even head bases over the years that I really need to bite the bullet, and get a new matched head for both of them. That hurts being over $300 in just heads.
 
Brassed up? Chrome worn down to bare brass? where is it work and how long did this take?
 
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