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Badger Renegade Krome - air exiting cup instead of tip

Discussion in 'Airbrushes' started by gbambo, Sep 26, 2016.


  1. gbambo

    gbambo Guest

    I have a new Krome. It seems very prone to air leaking into the paint cup. And occassionally it will suddenly route all air out the cup. When this happens, all the paint exits the cup in an instant, destroying the paint job I am working on and making a horrible mess. This is unacceptable.

    I have taken the whole airbrush apart at least 10 times for a thorough cleaning. The chamber below the cup is very difficult to clean thoroughly as it has poor access and complex contours.

    I am also confused about the front most piece, which the needle and nozzle project through. If screwed in completely, no air can exit the brush. It needs to be loosened to work at all. And the degree of looseness seems to control air flow capacity. Yet I can find no accounts of this being a proper way to calibrate airflow. I thought that was what the dual action trigger was for. Though I now see this part is called the regulator, but I don't see it being mentioned as such in tutorials.

    Many years ago I had an entry level Paaxche which was a breeze to use. This one is unmanageable.

    The "documentation" that came with this is pure crap. It contains virtually no instructions and does not mention the Krome model. 85% of the instructions are about replacing the PTFE paint seal, which is not likely to happen for many years. The print is microscopic. NOT ONE SINGLE WORD ON USAGE.

    I understand from other sources that viscosity ought to be same as skimmed milk. If it is that viscosity particular it ought to have come with a viscosity gauge.

    So far, I have to rate this product a huge fail!

    Please help!
  2. Malky

    Malky Pencil Pushing Protagonist Very Likeable!

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    Buy another paasche:thumbsup: or contact Badger, it is not our fault, we give advice here of our own free will but we don't make the brushes, you'll be asked for an intro because without knowing where you are, we don't know where to send you, Badger after sales service is second to none, if you contact them they will either fix it or send you a new one free of charge, however, if you display the same attitude you have here they will more than likely just ignore you.

    So why not go to the intro section and tell us (nicely) a little about yourself, once we know where you are we can if you ask nicely guide to th ebest palce for help and service;)
    Vince Driver likes this.
  3. markjthomson

    markjthomson AKA QuickDraw and very happy #nobrushleftbehind Staff Member Admin SuperMod

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    What @Malky said! Air bubbling back is usually either a blockage or air getting in where it shouldn't. Can I suggest you also take the time to view some good tutorials on airbrushes, their maintenance and how they work as that will help you understand better. While you give the product a huge fail, from your comments, I expect you are not really in a position to make that call as you have admitted to not understanding the basic working principles. Airbrushtutor has some good ones. Also get familiar with cleaning the brush.

    All that after you've gone along and said Hi nicely - it's all very awkward when someone turns up at your front door apparently grumpy about something but hasn't been polite enough to say who they are... to help you out here it the link...

    http://www.airbrushforum.org/introductions/

    http://www.airbrushforum.org/threads/introducing-netiquette.8799/

    And to help you out further, here is a similar current discussion... http://www.airbrushforum.org/threads/bubbling-complication.16750/

    Look forward to your intro... :)
  4. JackEb

    JackEb The Dragon Hunter Staff Member Admin

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    As has been said, it would be nice to have a bit more info..... like what paint you are currently using.
    Just because you've thinned it to the consistency of milk doesn't mean the pigment size is one that will flow through an airbrush
    What you've described is often blocked nozzle. "But I've cleaned it throughly" is often said, but once guided to do it properly it's amazing how much extra junk is removed.
  5. jord001

    jord001 Air-Valve Autobot!

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    It does sound like your nozzle is getting blocked, As already said please do an intro with information on where you live, what paints your using etc. If its not the nozzle blocked then you might have a faulty airbrush and badger will help you out as they are very good with customer satisfaction. Ken (the owner) is a member here too and occasionally pops in.

    Lee
    JackEb likes this.
  6. gbambo

    gbambo Guest

    I asked for help here because Badger is not currently open.

    I did not say it was your fault.

    You appear not to like my attitude, but I do not understand why. I bought what I thought was a quality product and it does not work. The problem might be me, but that is only because it came without instructions. It is fundamentally reasonable to expect products to have instructions.

    Why do you need to know more about me? It is the airbrush that does not work. I post on forums all the time and have never been told I need to post details about myself to justify a response.

    I do not understand your attitude. I have been polite. It is not polite to tell me to ask someone else or tell me to buy another product. If you don't want to answer me, just don't answer.

    You suggest I have not treated forum members nicely. What did I do that was not nice?

  7. jord001

    jord001 Air-Valve Autobot!

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    We ask where you are and what paints you are using so we can try to work out why you are having the problems and depending on where you are we can tell you who to contact for best results thats all.

    lee
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  8. gbambo

    gbambo Guest

    So I discovered I was treating the regulator and nozzle retaining ring as one part, when it is actually two. I thought it was one with two knurled rings like the needle retaining ring. This meant I was regulating air while loosening the nozzle, which then shifted and redirected airflow.

    But I still have a severe problem as now it is clear that my Vallejo grey acrylic primer (pre-thinned for airbrushes) is drying inside the airbrush. I read this occurs when air pressure/volume is too high. I have tried reducing volume down to a trickle and up until the items I am painting are blown away. No luck. As for pressure, I started at 20 psi as recommended by Vallejo and went as low as 10 psi, the lowest I have ever seen anyone recommend. No luck.

    Paint is drying in the cup, in the nozzle, on the guard points of the regulator, on the tip of the nozzle outside, and on the needle. If I did not know better I would think Vallejo primer is not airbrush compatible.

    I have cleaned every millimeter of the brush several times.

    I guess I will try thinning and adding retarder (Liquitex). Further advice is welcome.
  9. Malky

    Malky Pencil Pushing Protagonist Very Likeable!

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    Of course we want to help you, we don't need your post code and house number, but if we know at least what country you are in we can guide to a recognized service center based on where you are, The CEO of badger airbrushes is a member on this forum and is a happy to help folks as his staff are, if badger know you have a problem they will as I said put it right for you even if it means a new brush, you haven't told us enough about your problem to decide if it's your own fault or a defect, so we generally need to know what paint, what thinning, what air pressure and anything at all that could point to a solution.

    Stating that your old brush worked better and that this one is crap doesn't really have any bearing on the problem or the solution, it simply makes it hard for us decide if you need help or are just giving a review, if my old brush was better than the one I have now I would simply go back to it, if wanted give my opinion on the quality of the brush I have now I would tell that to the manufacturer because if there genuinely was a defect and I think there isn't since we have artists here producing amazing art with the same brush, the manufacturer would want to fix it for free.

    You've had some good advice up until now so do a little checking with the info you've had and if nothing else works we'll get you in touch with badger whom I know for sure will not let suffer, unless they find that you yourself have damaged the brush, but even in those situations they still provide excellent service.
    markjthomson likes this.
  10. markjthomson

    markjthomson AKA QuickDraw and very happy #nobrushleftbehind Staff Member Admin SuperMod

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    You've been given some good advice, put that into practice. Do some more learning and get hold of badger. Another good bit of advice is if you want us to be more helpful than a mild explanation, make yourself known. It's entirely over to you but you are less likely to get ignored if you join in rather than turn up provide a bit of vague information and expect your problems solved. Either that or feel free to find another forum.

    We like to help people and like to get to know them. Like it was said, we don't know where you are. Namibia, Alaska or Kansas, or none.

    Most brushes come without instruction so nothing new there. I look forward to seeing your learning progress... :)

    Another bit of advice, don't mix different paint systems... Mixing liquitex and vellejo is likely to be asking for problems unless the manufacturers say it's OK...
    Malky likes this.
  11. gbambo

    gbambo Guest

    Hi,

    I am a 54 year old of Russian extraction living in the Bay Area. I am attempting to finish some etched brass letters for signage.

    I do understand how an airbrush works, as I successfully used a Paasche as I stated before. I have watched several tutorials about the Renegade Krome.

    I am in an excellent position to declare the absence of instructions as a fail. It is unreasonable. I have spent hours Googling for instruction elsewhere. Saying that I should educate myself, when my complaint is a lack of available information is non-responsive to my issue.

    The diagnosis that air is getting in where it should not be is not helpful. I already said air is getting where it should not be after all.

    There is no evidence I am unfamiliar with cleaning my airbrush. I am very familiar with cleaning it.

    I have not turned up grumpy at your front door. I have shown up at a door intended specifically for people seeking help. Being grumpy is contextually appropriate. Telling me not to be grumpy about the absence of necessary instructions is unreasonable.

    Thank you for the links.

  12. Malky

    Malky Pencil Pushing Protagonist Very Likeable!

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    So we are back to the beginning, :thumbsup: so Buy another Paasche or contact badger, your brush is obviously crap as you said and unfortunately we can't help with crap:(
  13. gbambo

    gbambo Guest

    Saying I expected a solution makes me sound more demanding that I am being. I asked for help as one of several avenues of redress, because that is a generally accepted route to solving a problem.

    I am also a scale modeller. It is not uncommon for people in that hobby to mix systems when no other solution presents itself. I am unaware Vallejo makes retarder and unaware Liquitex makes a primer.

    The paint is drying to fast. I tried two solutions suggested by sources I have consulted. They did not work. I hardly see how it is ill advised to try the retarder. Trying nothing is guaranteed not to work.

    I do not understand the widespread assumption that I do not intend to contact Badger. They just happen not to be open today.

    Also, just as I did not assume you all would have a solution, I don't assume Badger will. The last two products I made warranty claims on were fraudulently denied coverage. The assumption that all manufacturers want happy customers is naive. If Badger is one of the good guys, that will come as a pleasant surprise. But the fact they close tech sup at 1 pm PST is not very accommodating.

    I still object to the omission of instructions as unreasonable. Especially given that negligence voids the warranty. How do I avoid negligence when there are no instructions? YouTube videos tutorials are great, but are not endorsed by the manufacturer who is free to claim they are not sound advice, not to mention the difficulty of finding videos that answer my questions with specific reference to my make and model.

  14. gbambo

    gbambo Guest

    Your sarcasm is not appreciated. I have owned my part and admitted my misunderstandings. There is no reason to assume the airbrush is crap.
    I never said the airbrush was crap. I said my overall experience was a fail so far and that is a fair appraisal.

  15. gbambo

    gbambo Guest

    By the way, I checked out the Badger site for tech info. On the subject of air in paint cup, they say there are three causes:

    When air blows into paint jar, it means that compressed air is getting into the paint chamber inside the airbrush. This happens because of three reasons. 1) For all Models- Paint tip may be split- using magnifying glass inspect the front area of tip for any signs of hairline fracture from front face going backwards 1/16" in length min. This happens when needle is jammed hard forward into paint tip. If so, replace tip or complete head assembly. 2) For Models 100, 150 & 200 Series airbrushes - Paint tip may not be sealed properly with bee wax. Reseal if necessary or install new head assembly. For all drop-in tips make sure paint tip & mating airbrush angle is perfectly clean and free of any imperfections before assembly. 3) For all 100, 150 & 200 Series – The head seal may be worn. The head seal 50-055 can only be tightened & loosened two or three times before it gets worn out and needs to be replaced.

    For those who suggest I am not making adequate efforts at self help, none of the above were involved in my case. Yet I did figure out I had not properly retained the nozzle. And thereafter discovered that the problem was continuing for a second independent reason, namely paint drying out before exiting the brush.

  16. gbambo

    gbambo Guest

    I have been asked to consult the netiquette for this site. What happened to honouring No 25 - "Do not chastise newbies"?
  17. Malky

    Malky Pencil Pushing Protagonist Very Likeable!

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    :thumbsup: You are very correct, so please accept my apologies:( won't happen again:)
  18. RebelAir

    RebelAir Air-Valve Autobot!

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    Wheres jackeb to calm things down when ya need her :)..Sorry you feel affronted @gbambo, some come here frustrated with such issues and those responding perhaps need to consider this, sometimes words/posts can come across a little harsh at times where it wasnt likely intended and degrades even quicker, but I have bought this up with moderators and admins in the past, for me introductions are a personal thing that some may want to share, some may not, ultimately we are here to try and help and sometimes it is easier to help knowing a little about the type of equipment, paint etc someone uses but some need to calm down on the introduction aspect, its a forum and we are here to help and I dont need to know you to do that and if I need to know more I'll ask. Its a forum, not a social experiment and not everyone wants to "share the love".

    Onto your issue, sounds like paint could be a big part of your prob as your perhaps finding out. generally bubbling in the cu is due to air leaking through the threads of the head assembly and a chapstick or vaseline can help seal those threads better. The Krome is considered a detail gun and to get the best out of it, high reductions are generally used, way beyond milky and more towards watery but that is experimentation to find the best balance between reduction and PSI. I haven't use vallejo paint before but if your noticing a lot of drying and if its doing so quickly then quite possibly the nozzle is just getting massive buildup quickly, the pigment of the base may be ground quite coursley, base pigment usually is and if so it may be fine for airbrushing with but more intended for larger needle guns, when it and if its blocking to that point,it will take a path of less resistance which is through the cup. The front nozzle/head assembly should be securely seated and if not it could indicate a different issue of a manufacturing problem. Testing this is pretty easy, instead of paint, put water in the cup (after cleaned) and spray, if it does the same with water it could indicate a bigger issue. In that case badger is the best peeps to talk to and they are very good in customer service, but it may take a day or few to get onto someone but when you do they will bend over to help without needing to confront them with warranty law or issues. Try their facebook page as it may get you a quicker response but I would send it as a private message. I would also recommend looking for a cple vids Ken has done on Youtube himself to better look at their products, use etc..

  19. JackEb

    JackEb The Dragon Hunter Staff Member Admin

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    Sorry Rebel.... I went for coffee and got side tracked. :D

    Let's take a deep breath and try again.
    Introductions aren't compulsory and it's entirely up to the individual. You have chosen not to and that is fine.
    A little additional info goes a long way to finding a resolution to an issue.
    In you first post we were informed you had bubbles in the badger cup, no instructions, you've cleaned it but are still having issues.

    After a bit of digging we further discovered that you were using Vallejo paints, using the equipment wrong due to lack of provided instruction. You are Russian (not relevant but you thought you were required to do so apparantly) and you live in the Bay Area. So that would be down the road from me in Australia ?? The Bay does great ice cream !!

    Let us do some digging through the forums to see who else uses Vallejo paints and see what we can do to get you a resolution.
    Meanwhile re read what has been posted. Get rid of the noise and just read the information relevant to helping your issue !!
  20. basepaint

    basepaint Air-Valve Autobot! Very Likeable!

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    I hope I can help you out as I have a krome also,I would say your getting what we call tip dry,with that comes blockage to the nozzle, try a good cleaning and see if it will spray water without air blowing back into the brushes cup,If it will spray the water then chances are the pigment is to big in the paint (the khrome was met for fine details) try a different paint if you can (golden hi flow ,com art, createx illustration colors reduce it a little if needed ,all of these will spray straight from the bottle but I think spray better reduced with less tip dry and let me know how that works

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