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Badger Renegade Krome - air exiting cup instead of tip

Discussion in 'Airbrushes' started by gbambo, Sep 26, 2016.


  1. gbambo

    gbambo Guest

    Thanks!!!

    I note this is not from the Badger site. I expected to find this there.

    This is similar to the inclusion in my airbrush, which had the sheet for the Velocity instead.

  2. gbambo

    gbambo Guest

    Confirmed needle and nozzle match. Confirmed no damage using jeweller's loupe.

  3. markjthomson

    markjthomson AKA QuickDraw and very happy #nobrushleftbehind Staff Member Admin SuperMod

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    Higher pressure will cause more of it. It is something that happens, shouldn't be a problem. Just remember top clean it.

    Extender doesn't slow drying, it is normally the medium that makes up the bulk of the paint. Paint is made of pigment, resin, solvent (thinner) and additives. Then the user can add reducer (to adjust the viscosity) or other additives. So the extender is the resin (or a very similar product). Any time you add something to the paint you have to make sure it is compatible. For example, you can add a water based reducer to a solvent based paint. As a general rule, don't mix across systems or manufacturers.
  4. basepaint

    basepaint Air-Valve Autobot! Very Likeable!

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    Sounds like we might be narrowing it down to the paint your using?as you said everything else looked good thru the loop,will it spray straight water?
  5. JackEb

    JackEb The Dragon Hunter Staff Member Admin

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    the link and the pic are two different sites, Dons airbrush is a good independent review of many airbrushes, he gives a good break down of the parts if you go and check it out.
  6. JackEb

    JackEb The Dragon Hunter Staff Member Admin

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    ok, so now I have had my coffee and I've had a look back through the thread, and tried to remove 'noise' it would seem that the paint you are using is infact a primer ?

    I've done a web trawl and found the following info on this stuff
    (all from user experiences, not from manufacturer recommendations)
    • do not use alcohol to thin it, distilled water works perfectly
    • Cleans up with Denatured alcohol,
    • Needs high pressure to be used (some use 20PSI, some up to 30 PSI
    • recommended distance for airbrush application is 20 cm (7.87 inches)
    • I suggest using a junk airbrush for spraying polyurethane primers
    • It is a nice primer if you brush it on, couldn't get it to spray right threw my .4 tip, even when thinned down to 40/60. but other that that, a good primer
    • Must be thoroughly agitated/shaken as it separates in the bottle

    I'd follow @basepaint s advise, give the brush a really good clean and then see what happens when you spray water, does it bubble back in the cup ?
  7. RebelAir

    RebelAir Air-Valve Autobot!

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    Going around in circles a bit, a couple of us have tried to explain the test for this but havent seen you mention the result of this test..A good clean then spray with water only..Does it do the same thing? If it does, look at the nozzle condition and how the needle is seating in that nozzle with a magnifying glass.If that looks OK and seated well and no cracks or flares, add some soapy water to the front assembly and test spray, if it bubbles up around those head assembly threads it suggests they are not sealing properly and can be fixed with some vaseline or chapstick applied to those threads. Spray water again and see if its fixed, if so its def a paint issue..Sometimes we also just cop bad paint or a bad batch of paint thats been sitting on some shps shelf for a cple of years, most paints have a shelf life before resins and binders and the like start breaking down as most are organic.

    Is the vallejo (again not aware of this paint type or brand personally) an enamel style paint? if so it can be a right royal pain to clean properly and one stubborn speck left behind will see you just have the same issue over, I don't recommend this to all but gently reaming the tip with an old needle my remove that stubborn speck that no amount of solvents will remove..if there is a speck within the nozzle the venturi will be upset and it will side spray, IE the spray wont be dead straight and this will put paint onto the sides of the tip cover potentially.

    Thinning- try a ratio of 10 drops thinner, one drop of paint..If same issue, try 20 drops thinner one drop of paint. PSI is of little concern, just dont exceed 60 PSI

    When discussing the pigment size we are talking in microns. 1 micron may be fine and spray through a 0.2 mm tip set up no worrys for 20-30 minutes. A few more microns will also spray but once some build up occurs in the tip which is quite natural the larger the pigment size, the quicker it will build up. Maybe ten minutes, more microns you may be down to 5 minutes You can avoid buildup by regulary blasting your airbrush or not stopping for to long with the "air on" as the air will also help dry the paint within the nozzle faster. but does sound like simple tip dry. Some paints tip dry very quickly, retarders can help but it will still happen, just slower. if water based, you can use some glycerin to slow the paint drying so fast..

    Also strain your paint...

    Good luck.
  8. gbambo

    gbambo Guest

    Solved all problems and going strong now.

    First problem was not fastening nozzle retainer tight. So nozzle shifted and contributed to blockage.

    Second problem was loosening air regulator (the very tip of airbrush). This regulates air, but I found it more useful to tighten it too and back off needle. But this limits air flexibility and is not recommended as a general solution.

    Third problem was media was too viscous. Thinned to 2% milk consistency or thinner.

    Also learned about back-flushing, which I do not see mentioned often. Cover tip with finger will actuating air. Not whole tip, or nothing will happen. Just a light touch. Air redirects into cup and brings up debris located forward of bottom of cup and behind removable front components. Otherwise most people suggested using pipe-cleaner, but this requires disassembly.

    I can not avoid clogs and even change colors without any disassembly!

    And be sure to run solvent through brush anytime it is laying dormant awaiting further painting. Otherwise residue inside will harden. Result is a brush with only liquid to be flushed before proceeding to next color.

    Thanks to all those with advice or links.

    And to those who suggested I return the brush and go back to a basic 1970's design, I am glad I did not follow your abusively cynical advice.

    To Badger - Please include instructions!
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  9. RebelAir

    RebelAir Air-Valve Autobot!

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    I am glad you got it sorted....but.

    On the first point of making sure your head assembly is properly seated is kind of common sense, like saying I fixed my wobbly tyre by tightening up the nuts..Don't think instructions is needed for such and reading through 100's of posts here its been said a few times for posts with similar issues so using the search may help next time diagnose it better. for example if you look here.....

    http://www.airbrushforum.org/threads/airbrush-trouble-shooting-guide.2570/

    You will find under "Bubbles In Cup" the first point I made is a loose nozzle. PS An admin needs to sticky that thread in Trouble Shooting rather than where I accidentally put it in General Airbrush Tutorials..

    Back flushing wasn't likely mentioned because its not a requirement to clean a gun as that is all it really helps with and if done with too much regularity can cause back seal issues, blasting the gun is more relevant to tip dry issues which by your description sounded like it was occuring, some do it to assist but its not essential unless the blockage is to big to go through the nozzle and there are other ways to remove such as I just mentioned. Spraying through thinners or water pending on the paint type in between each color or at the end of the session for most Airbrush paints is enough of a clean generally.

    I still think a different paint may be appropriate, I go 6 months without needing to disassemble my gun and I do often let paint dry in it because I'm simply lazy. If your breaking down your gun on every clean you increase the risk of damaging the airbrush and the threads or simply loosing a part down the sink.

    Fair point if your not happy with the instructions badger includes, but for them to express everything someone new to their guns would need to know it would be a set of books, not instructions. The fact is there is a wealth of info out there, including here that helps instruct people and a multitude of videos from badger themselves.

    Finally I may be sounding a bit cold because I don't think your last comment was needed, nor was some of the original angst in this thread from some, but seems like you know want to shoot yourself in the foot. Its not a good way to ensure others will bust their arse to help again the next time...and if nipping up your nozzle was the issue I have no doubt there will be a next time. Politeness gets you a long way here and many good friends. Direct attacks won't.

    I do wish you though the best for your Airbrushing endeavours.
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2016
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  10. Squishy

    Squishy Queen Clown Slayer Very Likeable!

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    I'm really glad your issues were resolved, and that you now have a brush that performs as it should.

    With regard to instructions coming with the airbrush, no major airbrush brands include instructions. Partly because there are so many variables involved regarding paint types, reductions, the type of painting being done ( t shirts are vastly different to super fine detail work) , and the weather/conditions you are living in. Its too broad, and will not be effective for all. Its not so unusual either, cars for example don't come with driving instructions, you are expected to get that info elsewhere. Its admittedly a bit frustrating when you are raring to go, but is one of those things.

    With regards to backflushing. It can be effective with low pressure to help mix paints in the cup, and is a common practice, but not something I would do to clear a blockage, you would need a higher pressure to be effective which as mentioned is risking blowing your needle packing valve, and also you are pushing any blockage back into the cup.

    I too feel your last comment was not necessary. I'm sure you didn't mean your original comments to come accross as abrupt, but it did and people responded to that. It was an unfortunate start for you here, but despite that people have been doing their best, giving up their time and using their experience to help you. Comments such as that are not likely to encourage people to continue doing so. Read through the forums and you will see nothing but people advising and trying to help others, but you wont find another thread with someone making that kind of remark.

    I really hope the slate can be wiped clean and you stay around to share your ABing journey, and make the most of the knowledge that is here. Then in turn you will be able to pass on what you've found here to another newbie, which is what we aim to do :)
  11. gbambo

    gbambo Guest

    You suggest that politeness is the best policy. That was my point. The first response I got was from a smug ass who thought my frustration was a sign I was the problem. He then came at me again.

    I do not think expecting instructions come with a $200 purchase is unreasonable. I am not unhappy about the quality of the instructions. I am unhappy there were NO INSTRUCTIONS. And the parts list included was for the wrong model. Indeed the model I have is still for sale, but nowhere mentioned on the manufacturers website. Which brings up another incident of hostile advice. Someone else mocked me for not scouring the web for the part sheet that was not included, as if expecting it to be on the manufacturers website was lazy on my part.

    The problem with the improperly secured nozzle retainer was my fault. And I took responsibility for it in my subsequent post. As for it being common sense, that is obvious. What was not obvious was that it was not properly seated (as evidenced by the fact that no one identified it as the problem). Its not like I have x-ray vision (from the outside it looked seated). I do not appreciate the prediction that given that gaff, I can be expected to have future problems.

    Why is there so much hostility on this board.

    Not to mention the rain of complaints about not introducing myself, which is a convention I have never seen on any other forum. Not to mention that when I did introduce myself, I was mocked for bringing up irrelevant information.

    To many people on this site want to find fault with people who have sincere problems, rather than just offering useful advice. I they don't want to be helpful, they should just keep their mouths shut. I took a lot of abuse and rudeness before making the comment you found unnecessary.

    Maybe this is all just a cultural thing. Most forums I have used in the past were hosted in the US. Spell check suggests this site is hosted in the UK.

  12. markjthomson

    markjthomson AKA QuickDraw and very happy #nobrushleftbehind Staff Member Admin SuperMod

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    It's more a bad start... As Squishy suggested, check out the rest of the posts on the forum, you will find this sort rare. Come join us, the water is fine and we really don't bite.
  13. Malky

    Malky Pencil Pushing Protagonist Very Likeable!

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    So who's the "Smug ass " then?, is it you?, it certainly couldn't be me:eek::eek::eek::)
  14. markjthomson

    markjthomson AKA QuickDraw and very happy #nobrushleftbehind Staff Member Admin SuperMod

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    Might be me... not sure... we shall see... :)
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  15. Squishy

    Squishy Queen Clown Slayer Very Likeable!

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    The site actually originated in Australia, but the members here are worldwide from 5 continents. So we are lucky enough to have a great muliticultural mix of people.

    It's not that your queries were unreasonable, but you were obviously frustrated, (which comes with the territory when learning to AB as most will agree lol) and it came across a harsh and abrupt and rude as mentioned, which people reacted to. I'm sure it was unintentional but it came across that way, and almost as if you were blaming the situation you found yourself in, and the faults you were finding in with the airbrushing world on this forum. As I said not a great start to your time here all round, but despite that, people did still try to help you. It's hard to help someone when they are coming across as angry and when you don't have all the facts you need to help them.

    You were asked to go to the intro section as most all newbies are, not because we want to know personal details, but because airbrushing is so varied, and has so many variables that it helps us help you if we know roughly where you are - as mentioned in the first reply so we know who to send you to for after sales care (who you could have spoken to about the wrong parts list) if we know, and handy suppliers etc, and so that we can give more specific advice regarding your equipment and climate conditions. That can be tailored even more by knowing what your ultimate airbrushing goals are. There is such a broad spectrum to airbrushing, that it is easy to give out info that is not relevant to an individual, without knowing what their needs are. That info is then usually within the first few posts, which make it easy for people to refer back to and find again later to remind them what your set up is for future advice, if needed. We have heading towards 8,000 members here, who have been ok with that, but its not for everyone, and it's your perogative to share as much or as little as you like. What other forums do, is their business, but in regards to airbrushing it really is a case of the more we know the easier it is to tailor specific advice so that is something people have done here.

    As for there being no instructions with your AB, as I mentioned No airbrush comes with those instructions. There are too many variables in airbrushing for a one instruction sheet covers all. It is literally (no exaggeration) different for each individual depending on paint, type of AB, nozzle size of that AB, what, and how you are painting eg, fine detail, large coverage, the surface used, the climate to name just a few. And as also mentioned like other products such as cars, motorcycles, and other kinds of machinery, you don't get instructions with, it is assumed you will already have that info, take classes, learn or find that info elsewhere. An airbrush is a lot of money, so it is annoying you can't just use it, but there is a fairly large learning curve, and luckily we have that info here, or can at least guide you towards finding it. Bit it is an impossibility to cover all of those variables in one instruction sheet, which is why it isn't done.

    This is not a hostile site. As I said before, you only have to look around at the thousands of other threads and you won't find another like this one, from any of those nearly 8,000 members. And please do look around anyway, there is so much info there that may be useful to you, or if there is something you would like to know but aren't finding, there is always the search option. Members, many of them well known names, or just splatterers like myself, are only to happy to pass on their years of knowledge to help others reach their goals. Many even get together, and I'm sure if there was a member near you, they would have been happy to meet up and show you a few things as many of our other members do. Another reason why people like to read intro info.

    I suggested that we started with a clean slate, to then go an and call people names, and then continue to belittle the forum is far from that. No one wants to find fault, or is suggesting that now you have resolved your airbrush issues we expect you to have future issues. However we do usually make the assumption that once someone has their query resolved, that they may want to take advantage of all the other info that is here namely, which paints are better for which applications and how best to use them, painting techniques, tips and tricks, how to source images, different methods of transferring them, drawing designs, use of other equipment ABers find helpful such as plotters, discussion about copywrite laws and making sure you aren't breaking any, are just a few I can think of, off the top of my head.

    I respectfully suggest, that that slate is well and truely wiped clean from this point. Water under the bridge. I hope you become a member of our community and take advantage of everything this forum has to offer from this point forward. We are here to help and I hope you take advantage of that.
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  16. RebelAir

    RebelAir Air-Valve Autobot!

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    yer your right @gbambo its not like other forums, many others would have banned you by now and honestly likely @Malky too. I hope this one continues not to so you can both learn a few things that may be useful and malky can also realise it wasn't appropriate what he said and perhaps not meant too- it came across aggressive, but so did your original posts in a very small degree and I think thats why perhaps it was responded to that way, but I do feel some responses to your thread unwarranted, but the way to handle that is generally to raise the concern privately with that person you felt affronted by and if that fails raise it with a senior admin. It didn't need to go where it went and you assumed Malky or others we're calling you stupid but thats you inserting your own frustration and emotion a bit and reading too much between the words, perhaps malky did too but I'll explain that further down when I discuss the disease of "larrikism" which some may need to reign in, me too at times as one persons joking nature is seen by another as an attack, especially when you don't know us, but looking through the forums a bit no doubt you will see some here have a jokey personality, bringing it down to name calling though is simply wrong and yes a banable offence in nearly any forum.

    I'm an angry person too at times and its easy to recognise in others :). I dislike stupidity or those to lazy to spend five minutes researching stuff for themselves as that's truly the only way to learn and I know that comes across at times likely in my own posts but thats not calling someone stupid, far from it but we ALL suffer that at times, the flip side is I have spent not hours but years of my life and the little personal time I get to paint on helping people exactly like that instead because I love to teach and possibly affect someones own Airbrushing towards a positive outcome and to encourage them to learn before needing to be told, to question and experiment with whats in front of them. I too am the type that likes to have the last word and often write long posts that some likely breeze through or not bother to read. This may be one of those LOL. In many ways I'd gather me and you are probably quite similar so please take this advice in hand rather than see it as an attack.

    A few things we're suggested to you early..A test that would have perhaps led us to the best help we could give faster yet you did not appear to do so, or at least you didn't mention it if you did. Diagnosing an issue without tool in hand is a step by step process, if you won't do that first step..how can we help? As the result of that test may have led us onto other things you needed to check because without that check we can't know if its the airbrush or the paint thats the issue but you then put it across as if its a poor forum or those trying to help you are daft for not telling you specifics in one post and cover/convey every aspect of airbrushing or help you get it sorted in the next minute or two. I have been working on that for years and it is literally a books worth of info and 100's of How To videos and I have still barely skimmed the surface so sometimes a help post may take some back and forward to get it right and yes sometimes we forget to mention some things as we assume the basics are known to some degree like for example tightening a head assembly to the point it doesn't tighten anymore and is seated (by hand). If the bubbling still exists you will see many thread suggesting from me and maybe others that a gentle nip with some pliers (or adding some vaseline/chapstick to the thread to fix it) but thats a last resort as over tightening your nozzle is also a risky business and can snap your thread if tightening is done overzealously. If I had suggested that and you broke your airbrush it would have no doubt made you furious so we take it step by step..

    Saying that we all also recommend that some sit here for a few days and read the wealth of info that's already here, hundreds of posts cover your problem as its one many beginners suffer so understanding how to use search functions may assist you next time as typing in "Airbrush Trouble Shooting" would have delivered you right to my post that covers EVERY airbrush issue and what to do to fix it..

    Also did you bother to watch that video I posted? Its over an hour long and from Badger covering every aspect of beginner needs of their brushes, you don't mention again if you do so perhaps ignoring the actual help given was half your problem, in todays world no-one expects not to have to send you instructions but no doubt on the box somewhere the give their site details and address, ffs I can't even get a paper bill anymore..I'm told to go to the net or charged for a piece of paper that tells me what I owe..I don't always want to go to the net but the world is going that way LOL. I am a badger man and yes as a badger fan and massive supporter, the way you describe badger as a company got my skirt up a little yet I still admonished Malky rather than you in my original reply, someone I consider a friend that has also helped countless of people and tried then to help you, as did most in this thread.. I know how great badger is and how far they bend to help their customers. You mention your happy to take the blame to a degree on your understanding as a new user to that brush but then you bash a company that is relatively small, family owned, fighting chinese knock-offs and a big market because you made a mistake. especially poor form to a company that does rely on what their customers say through word of mouth and forum threads and the like and will fix anything that the customer has issue with if in their power to do so, your problem though is patience and you expect it to happen in 5 minutes. Sorry if neither us nor Badger can forfill that expectation as no-one drops everything for one persons needs and to assume your that privileged is a shame..Sometimes it may take a day or few to sort it out..

    Suggesting though its a cultural thing may actually be right, though very PC incorrect in todays world LOL..Initially this forum was started by an Aussie, another that bends over to help others and has created a popular place that does exactly that, I'm an Aussie and many of us on here are Aussies. We are generally larikans and straight talkers, we call a spade a spade and often say things with a bit of jest that can completely get taken wrong as everyone interprets things their own way, but many in other cultures also suffer from that disease- Also from your great land, but to assume because its hosted in the UK or another country other than your's is bordering a superiority complex and that's an issue I'd happily spend hours explaining how stupid and conceited that is.If you dislike it being inferred that your being silly, which most will then take as "stupid", stop acting like it..But I won't go on any further as no doubt you may feel I'm attacking you..I'm not, simply trying to help you further, no doubt my "Longpostitus" is already getting on others nerves and maybe even yours so will wrap it up. I do hope though you give the forum another chance as its not what you describe it to be, but the name calling needs to stop from all, so does the suggesting in between words and the bashing of a company that is a great American Company....and to add so does the "Introduction Police"-This isnt the first time recently this has occurred over some demanding introductions and thats how it does come across at times, politely asking as some do is completely different and if its ignored, still help the person as that's our mantra isn't it?. If its that much of a concern for some to want introductions, simply lock all post reply/creation ability until an introduction is made in that posting area and have a pop up box saying its a pre-requisite to best help forum users upon registration. Popping in on every thread and telling peeps to introduce themselves isn't what this forum is about..its here to help people..and if I get told off for that my chest is thick enough to wear my statements..Always has been even when some disagree or involves my own ban which I have achieved two off in other Airbrush Forums for simply stating fact, again being an Aussie I will call a spade a spade...

    PS Using CAPS is a good way to show displeasure and perhaps why some considered you aggressive, it does indicate yelling and what capped words or sentences suggest....Perhaps you use them like I do at times to simply enforce a point but others will not see it that way and perhaps something you could consider changing...Perhaps not but that's your choice as it is every individual on how they act or post..

    I do though with sincerity wish you the best and do not write what I do to further upset anyone but to try and assist it not occuring again as like all I love this place and one of the few places on the net I feel "home" at and will leave this post alone..have said enough as it is, and probably too much LOL
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  17. Splat

    Splat Guest

    I am brand new here also gbambo.
    I'm happy you got things sorted out once a 'cultural' median was found and things settled down.

    But whats the point of kicking the sleeping dog at the end?
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