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Beginner choice: S&H Silverline 0.2, PS-270 or HP-BH shady deal?

Discussion in 'Airbrushes' started by Chipotle, Feb 7, 2020.


  1. Chipotle

    Chipotle Young Tutorling

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    Hi guys I decided to post this question here as it is the only place where I could find good info about the PS-270.
    A don't have or even handled an aribrush in my life ever but I decided to buy one because it might speed up my painting process. I usually paint Warhammer models, 28mm heroic scale but I have 72mm and 210mm figure and Gundams.
    Looking many videos I think the following models are what might suit me:

    1-Iwata hp-bh
    PRO:
    Light;
    Iwata quality;
    Precise;
    additional paint quantity valve control;
    CONS:
    damns expensive;
    only 0.2mm,;
    cleaning is a bit of a chore;
    can't change the cup on top;
    QUESTION:
    I found on ebay a japanese store selling it new for $119, how do I know if it's legit? The store has 100% positive close to 1000 feedbacks, but the pictures are very generic, potentially ripped off from some other website.
    If i need to paint bigger models is the 2ml cup going to be too small?
    Can I fit a 0.4mm on the same body?

    2-H&S Evo Silverline 2 in 1 (or just SOLO)
    PRO:
    easy to clean;
    precise enough;
    intercheangeable cups;
    intercheangeable needles;
    good price;
    can buy the additional paint flow valve control later on;
    CONS:
    finesse and flow wise sounds a bit average;
    nickel coating is reported to suffer from discoloration after a while;
    need to buy the bigger cup if I go for the SOLO;
    no lid on either 2 in 1 or SOLO box;
    QUESTIONS:
    Do I really need to get the 0.4 to paint Gundams? I guess so, they are quite big compared to the 28mm.

    3-Pretty boy platinum PS-270:
    PRO:
    cheap;
    precise enough;
    precision and flow almost as good as Iwata;
    big cup for bigger models;
    additional paint flow control;
    CONS:
    a bit heavy;
    very very big cup;
    very long;
    can't change the cup;
    cleaning is a bit of a chore;
    expensive parts and a bit hard to find in my area (UK and Italy);
    QUESTION:
    Do you feel that the big cup is a problem while doing very fine work?
    Do you feel that the lenght is putting too much distance between your eye and the "canvas" while doing very fine work?
    Any contribution from someone using a H&S silverline and a PS-270?
    Is the ps-270 more precise than the silverline at 0.2mm?

    All in all I think my go to choice should be the H&S silverline because it's very flexible and easy to clean but I'm afraid that I will regret not choosing something more precise.

    Sorry for the wall of text, many thanks :D
  2. markjthomson

    markjthomson AKA QuickDraw and very happy #nobrushleftbehind Staff Member Admin

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    OK a few things to consider. 1. If you want to know if it is a legit Iwata, I think there is a list of sellers on their website.. I might be wrong on that though. 2. You gets what you pays for... You are better off spending a little more to avoid pain and suffering. 3. In terms of nozzle size, 0.28mm is a tricky size for a beginner as it is affected more by subtle things like reduction and paint quality. A great all rounder is the Iwata Eclipse, 0.38mm nozzle. 4. It doesn't matter how small your nozzle is, detail ability, precision and control comes with only 1 thing, practice. The Eclipse is pretty good at fine detail... but again, comes with practice.

    The nice thing about something like the eclipse is it is a great work horse, has a high paint flow rate, you can buy and install 0.5mm need;e/nozzle/aircap is you want and you can paint to some pretty fine detail. Price wise it isn't a bank breaker either.
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  3. JackEb

    JackEb The Dragon Hunter Staff Member Admin

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    What is your set up budget ?
    You’ll need

    Airbrush - smaller needle doesn’t equal better detail. It’s all about the experience of the artist in combination with the tool. Without some hardcore practice you won’t excel at detail

    Air hose, as long as it doesn’t leak air it’s all good. I’ve had good and bad cheapies,

    Air compressor (tanked- and not a fish tank type of air blower) - don’t cheap out here, you’ll regret it
    And then there is the Paint /reducer

    big isn’t always better! You’ll be surprised at how little paint you actually use. If you’re only doing models at this point then a B or C cup will be fine
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  4. Mr.Micron

    Mr.Micron Royal pain in the air hose Admin

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    What would aid ua in answering your question on buying an airbrush is id we knew where you lived ie country or state.
    Check out spraygunners site .

    As far painting warhammer figures with an airbrush it comws down to practice and learn the muscle memory to control the airbruah.
    If your looking for one to not only paint the detail but lay on a sealer and baae coat I would suggest the H&S infinity 2 in 1 comea with .4 ans .15 set up but keep in mind some paint will not go through the .15 due to pigment size
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  5. DaveG

    DaveG Detail Decepticon! Very Likeable!

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    1st - Air-craft.net, and Everything Airbrush should be two places you get to know well if you are in the area of the UK.

    2nd - I will dispel the myth that the Silverline is easier to clean than the other two on your list. It simply isn't. It is true that it is easier to remove the nozzle, but this does not equate to cleaning. The paint path is longer on the H&S compared to the other two listed, and therefore holds more color to clean out. In addition, the stacked disk needle packing in the H&S is pretty notorious for allowing paint to get into the back of the body, and takes a long time to clean completely when just flushing between colors. That packing is also about the hardest one to get adjusted correctly compared to the other two - which are the same as each other.

    All three are good brushes, and all three can successfully be used to do the type of work you are wanting to do. Unfortunately, personal preferences will make deciding which one is right for you a bit of a stretch. Having all of them, I will say that the HP-BH is probably the best brush in the bunch, but I find the PS270 easier to use. Now, for me, the 270 is on the large side, so I tend to go with the HP-BH far more often. For me, the H&S brushes just don't feel like they offer the same sort of response that I get from the Japanese brushes, so they tend to remain in the case far more often.
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2020
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  6. SiRoxx

    SiRoxx Party Boy UK Style Very Likeable!

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    I can’t suggest anything that hasn’t already been said except... The parts for the 270 are pretty cheap compared with other makes. Air-craft.net are a good supplier with great prices and delivery.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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  7. Chipotle

    Chipotle Young Tutorling

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    @markjthomson: good points. 1-they don't appear on Iwata's list; 2a-Agree that's why I don't want too go cheap or buy a knock-off; 2b-I don't think I can afford to buy 0.4 now and 0.2/0.3 later on; 3-paint thinning and and paint quality is something I need to learn from the get go because that's part of the process of painting miniatures with an airbrush so I'm not scared of spitting blood for a couple of months to nail down the process; 4-wise words, it's just that not all the airbrushes are born the same. I found an interesting review/comparison that shows the differences between aribrushes YOUTUBE VIDEO. It's visible that a PS-770 it's a different beast compared to a Paashe Vision 0.25mm, but other than that there are a lot of variables like weight, atomisation, flow, balance, cleaning and many other that I am too inexperience to even imagine.
    Conclusion: after what you said I'll definetly have a look at the 0.28/0.35 range instead of insisting of sticking to a 0.2mm needle/nozzle

    @JackEb: I think I can stretch my budget up to £150-160 for the aribrush. This is the compressor, I think it's good enough and that's the air hose, any advice abou the hose or the adapters? I'll use acrylic paints, GW colors or other brands, maybe Kimera or Liquitex so the thinner should be something along these lines. Maybe later I'll try some oils but I am not totally sure.

    @Mr.Micron: yup, that's what my gut instincts are telling me. S&H might be the more flexible option because I have the 0.4mm to start with as markjthomson wisely suggested, and then move on the smaller needle when I am feeling confident enough NB: from H&S page only the silverline with
    fPc is 0.15, the standard silveline 2 in 1 comes with 0.2 and 0.4, unless they are wrong :) LINK HERE; I am actually scared by the PS-270's cup, it's so big that I am afraid it can pull the center of gravity away from the front or center or block my sight on the model because most of the time I will need to spray perpendicularly or close to the surface;

    @DaveG:
    1a- bookmarked them, thanks! 1b-do you know if this one is legit? They have pretty cheap Iwatas, LINK TO SPRAYGUNS DIRECT;
    2-I just swung on the Iwata and PS-270's side;
    3-I just swung on the Iwata's side, if sprayguns direct is legit I might go for the HP-BH, if not then it's still on between H&S and PS-270;
    What's making the ps-270 unconfortable to you? The size? The weight? The position/size of the trigger? Do you find it well balanced when empty? Do you feel like the cup gets in the middle of your view? In a video a guy he showed that the air passing is basically just ON or OFF while using the mac valve, no position in between, is it working like it's supposed to? I thought that the mac valve is just setting up your max air, without getting rid of the dynamic pressure. I really dig the PS-270 but I am really afraid of the huge cup, it's a huge 10 ml compared to Iwata's 2 ml or H&S's interchengeable 2/5 ml :S

    @SiRoxx: great, having a look at it now thanks :)

    Everybody many thanks for the advices :) I hope I didn't sound too stubborn or on the defensive. It's a big effort deciding what to buy to begin this journet with and I am trying to make a good decision without rushing it. I really like the PS-270 but if I decide it's too much of a risk I might go for the Iwata eclipse 0.3/0.4 if the BH it's too expensive to buy original. Please feel free to give any sort of advice or link you think might be useful :)
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  8. Mr.Micron

    Mr.Micron Royal pain in the air hose Admin

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  9. DaveG

    DaveG Detail Decepticon! Very Likeable!

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    This may, or may not help - I photographed one of my Infinity's because it was out, and I didn't feel like digging for the Silverline - they are about the same size, anyway.

    There is not a thing wrong with the PS270. Out of the box, it probably has the best trigger of the bunch, nice soft feel, and smooth operation. It balances extremely well, and probably atomizes the best of the bunch as well. The removable head system is like a cross between an Iwata HP series, and a Micron. It is the most modern design out of the bunch. My own personal preference, I usually choose a smaller brush. Out of the trio, the HP-BH has the shortest distance trigger to tip, and the smallest OAL. I have a friend into model building (military stuff) and his preference is the PS270 - he has the others as well. So, it really does come down to personal preferences.

    3_Brush_-Comparison-1OAF.jpg

    Another Myth I will bust ;) - I do not know a single airbrush artist that actually sights down the barrel of an airbrush, or in fact holds it directly in front of them. That cup on the PS270 will never block the view of your work, although it could create a shadow larger than the others, depending on your light set up.

    Oh, and sprayguns direct is legit. Any MAC valve, whether built into the brush, or attached to your air hose, is used to regulate small pressure changes. Many people claim that it only effects flow, and not pressure, but this is a falsehood. When you reduce flow, pressure drops. I have one on my air hose, so that any brush I use can take advantage of it, although I also have several brushes that have one on board. Generally, not a selling point for me, as I have one on my hose ;)
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2020
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  10. Kim McCann

    Kim McCann Triple Actioner

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    I'd second @markjthomson. The Eclipse if you are on a budget. It's a total beast of a workhorse. Mine is 25 years old and still works like new. I have a small army of brushes I have collected over the years, and really the only two I use are the Custom Micron and the Eclipse. With practice you can pull very fine lines with the Eclipse, and yet still easily cover broad areas. The micron is awesome for detail, but the eclipse shines as an all round brush. I have several H&S brushes, Badger, Grex, and others, and like, but still, I keep going back to my Eclipse for general work.
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  11. DaveG

    DaveG Detail Decepticon! Very Likeable!

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    I have avoided recommending other brushes to keep from confusing things - figured it would be easier to stick with what you are already looking at. If there are other brushes you want to consider, there is a very good chance I either have one or have had one before ;).

    bunch-o-brushes1.jpg

    :D:D:D
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  12. retiredgarnham

    retiredgarnham Triple Actioner

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    If you are in the UK then look on the Bartsharp site. I bought a £37.00 bartsharp 186. It is similar to the H&S nozzle setup, comes with a 0.3mm needle and 3 different sized cups. I use it alongside my H&S Infinity and Evolution. It behaves like an Iwata with the trigger control, and is a pleasure to use. I purchased a 0.2mm setup for it for £7.00. I'm not saying that it is better than the H&S models but as everyone has stated, put the practice in and you won't be disappointed.
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  13. Chipotle

    Chipotle Young Tutorling

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    @Mr.Micron: thanks for the pointer, I will have a look;

    @Kim McCann: the Eclipse sounds like the best candidate for now;

    @DaveG: thanks for the pictures, and yes....you are not helping...because the PS-270 is back in the game :D What's OAL? And why for you it's important the distance trigger to point? And damn you have quite a few brushes there :D

    @retiredgarnham: wow that price is quite a shocker. I all honesty I don't feel confident starting with something like that because at that price there has to be some form of cost cutting and compromise in quality consistency. Maybe you got a good copy and you can tell because you already know your ability with the airbrush, but since I am a beginner and never used an airbrush if I get a bad copy I won't be able to tell and just go crazy why things aren't working. It might happen with other products of course, but maybe it's less likely to happen? Maybe I'm just biased...Figer crossed I guess :) I will definetly keep that brand and shop in mind. The the fact that you used it and it works well makes it a very solid candidate for a cheap additional solid airbrush :D
  14. retiredgarnham

    retiredgarnham Triple Actioner

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    I may be a bit biased but I did my research before buying the Bartsharp 186. If you read the blurb on their webpage you will soon come to realise that they are a genuine contender for airbrushes. I know I will get slammed for saying this but not all companies are out to rip you off, with there bottom line being profit for the share holders.
    Take Iwata for example. People still buy their basic model for an extortionate amount of money yet the actual unit hasn't been updated for decades. So no profit going back into the design of new airbrushes there. Also Iwata own H&S now so all the money H&S have spent on developing their brushes now belongs to Iwata. Iwata now can set their prices wherever they like and that's another reason to buy from other genuine sources. The 186 for instance is a well made piece, although I doubt that umpteen coats of nickle or chrome have been applied to the surface. But if all you want to do is look at the shiny surface instead of actually use it then buy a product that has Iwata printed on it. I personally prefer a unit that performs well, easy to clean and maintain and where spares are needed they are easy to obtain without a huge price tag attached to them. Incidentally I own two H&S airbrushes, firstly an Infinity CR 2 in 1 which was bought for me as a Xmas present a few years ago. Secondly an Evolution 2 in 1 which I got on Ebay in an auction for a ridiculous price, £45.00 if memory serves me. Sorry for the rant, I'll probably get thrown off the site now for dissing every bodies favourite airbrush. Good luck with your search and don't forget once purchased then practice, practice, practice.
  15. DaveG

    DaveG Detail Decepticon! Very Likeable!

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    hahaha, other "genuine sources" - the Bartsharp 186 is a branded Veda 186. Same brush can be found with several names stamped on it. It really is no different than someone suggesting a Master, Fengda, Veda, PointZero, Royalmax, etc. brush. Some people have fantastic results with these inexpensive brushes. I have many positive posts about some of them...

    You are allowed to have your favorites - everyone does.
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2020
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  16. retiredgarnham

    retiredgarnham Triple Actioner

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    I didn't know that Veda had a H&S nozzle system. I thought they had an old style Iwata nozzle system. Did Veda ever have a detachable cup system? Bartsharp are also a dealership for Iwata. As we all know the company that manufactured Veda airbrushes forgot to register the name and therefore can no longer use the name. Bartsharp used to sell the Veda range and only have a few of the original units left for sale. The Bartsharp 183 and 186 models were designed by themselves with some help from people who actually use airbrushes for a living. Like I said I researched Bartsharp first as I couldn't believe that a modern style airbrush could be produced for such a minimal price.
    On another note, I have a Son in Law whose mantra is "If it hasn't got a designer label on it, it isn't worth buying" enough said.
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  17. Kim McCann

    Kim McCann Triple Actioner

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    I've the same experience as @DaveG . I don't have nearly the mightly fleet of airbrushes he has - a truly amazing collection, but I have picked up a couple dozen over the years to try different things, and see if I was paying a premium for no reason. I have had two Vegas over the years and was not particularly happy with them in my hands. Your mileage may vary of course. Some people do amazing work with quite inexpensive brushes because it just works for their style.

    What I did not particularly like tho and kind of keeps me away from them, is that in one the needle wasn't centered right so my spray cone always came out at an angle, and replacement needles and nozzles didn't help. Never sorted that out, and in the other, the screw in cup broke off the second time I tried to unscrew the cup for cleaning. In the case of the Master series, I had a cup fall completely off after a week.

    I think the risk with budget airbrushes is ultimately quality control and warranty. Some spray beautifully, but there is a higher chance you get a lemon than with a more established brand. But if the seller stands behind it, (and I notice that bartsharp does have a 1 year warranty) then it might be very well worth the risk at that price. The Iwatas come with a lifetime guarantee for the body and parts that aren't damaged by misuse, so you're paying a bit extra for that. And yes, they honor it. I had a HP-CH that developed a crack in the body, after about 15 years later they replaced it with no questions asked. So I am willing to pay a couple bills more for that kinda thing.

    I guess it ultimately comes down to what you want in a brush. If you're just starting out and willing to replace it in a year or two, then budget brands are probably a great way to start. If you're going to be doing a lot of work, and have learned enough to need more control, it is worth spending the extra on an entry level brush for a more established brand.
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  18. DaveG

    DaveG Detail Decepticon! Very Likeable!

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    Veda186.jpeg
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  19. Chipotle

    Chipotle Young Tutorling

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    @retiredgarnham: thanks for the passion you are pouring into the diffusion of knowledge for alternative brands, I really appreciate your input.

    @Kim McCann: what you said is where I am stuck. If I go cheap and get a bad copy I will get awfully bitter for two or three months, before being able to sending it back without paying a fortune (I need to leave the UK for a while). It might happen with a branded airbrush as well but to me it sounds less likely. As a person I would rather start with a more difficult tool and keep it longer than start with something easier and replace it later on, but yeah, the price sounds alluring.

    For now the contenders are:
    Bartsharp 186 or 187, £40;
    Iwata eclipse HP-CS, £120;
    Procon 270 (0.2mm) or 286 (0.3mm), £120.

    Bartsharp: looks great but mixed feelings because I am afraid to buy a bad copy,
    Iwata: nothing to say here, only that the cup is huge;
    Procon: great reviews but it has the huge cup and I need to check for the warranty.

    In this moment I am more prone to buy the Procon unless somebody has some very convincing arguments for the other two :)
  20. retiredgarnham

    retiredgarnham Triple Actioner

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    Did you mean the Bartsharp 183 or 186 If you meant the 187 then I wouldn't. I am only recommending the 183 and 186. They both have the H&S nozzle system. The only problem with this scenario is that there is a 6 to 8 week waiting list for one of them. Demand was so high when they introduced them, they sold out within a couple of weeks. If you live in the UK then give me a personal reply and I'll get mine to you so that you can try one out. If you like it pay me half the price of a new one. If not just send it back.
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