Compatibility Question

[SiRoxx]

Hey Guys and Girls,
Just a general question.
Is there any reason why you shouldn’t put water based over solvent and then clear with solvent?I’ve been having some small issues with clear coating, some advice here has helped for sure,but it’s still not great. I expect it’s mostly technique, but figured I’d just make sure it’s not a compatibility issue.
I’m thinking of a new project which might be
Solvent Base, Water Based Graphic, Solvent Clear and want to make sure I’m not setting off on the wrong foot.

Thanks.


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[Ronald art]

I have done it a few times with etac PS and never had any problems with clear coats but I make sure the PS is heat set and fully cured before I send it of for clear and I never use water to thin the paint as I found out the water gets trapped between the layers and the nature of the PS wont allow water to evaporate once it is dry if you do use water it is best to use a hair dryer after each layer set on high and heat it till you start to smell the paint

 

[Robbyrockett2]

Perfectly fine, this basically describes every automotive graphic job ever done w wicked. Just make sure you allow adequate dry times.
I am assuming youre using products i know you have.
Elaborate on what you mean by solvent base and solvent clear

Many of those can be incompatible

 

[Squishy]

Yup, no probs whatsoever.

 

[SiRoxx]

Perfectly fine, this basically describes every automotive graphic job ever done w wicked. Just make sure you allow adequate dry times.
I am assuming youre using products i know you have.
Elaborate on what you mean by solvent base and solvent clear

Many of those can be incompatible

Yes, it would be with stuff you know I have. I’ve been basing with a black aerosol that’s branded Halford’s (that’s like our O’Reilly’s Auto parts). So It’s a mid range 1k. The clear coat is Isopon again a 1k paint. I’m not convinced that it’s all that good to be honest and it could be part of what is making the colour underneath go like crazy paving. Part of it was definitely technique as I followed some advice and it was much better, just not great still.

 

[SiRoxx]

Thanks to all for the replies.


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[Robbyrockett2]

Option 1. You're lacquering over enamel. Very tricky and not recommended
Option 2. Your clearing enamel w enamel but not waiting the recommended time for drying on the base

If the cans don't spec lacquer or enamel;
Lacquer cans will usually say recoat any time, enamel will usually give a window.
After 30 min and before the 48 hr's or whatever it is ,if you try to clear, even enamel will wrinkle enamel.

If you need an enamel clear I can recommend the rust oleum 2x.

 

[SiRoxx]

Thanks for that Buddy and thanks for emailing too. I’m just about to check the cans and see what’s what. I’ll let you know.


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[SiRoxx]

Neither can seems to say what it is, but they both give a window that’s similar.
Last time it looked like it was only the Createx that lifted but the Clear went crazy paving. I had given the Water based around 24 hrs to dry.


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[twood]

You need to do dust coats first and not too much clear too fast. I do at least two.......Give each coat lots of time to flash off between coats. I use basically the same as you, and if I follow this, it works fine. I learned the hard way.....

 

[SiRoxx]

Neither can seems to say what it is, but they both give a window that’s similar.
Last time it looked like it was only the Createx that lifted but the Clear went crazy paving. I had given the Water based around 24 hrs to dry.


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[SiRoxx]

You need to do dust coats first and not too much clear too fast. I do at least two.......Give each coat lots of time to flash off between coats. I use basically the same as you, and if I follow this, it works fine. I learned the hard way.....

Thanks Twood. After you told me about dust coating I have done that and it was way better. It didn’t cure it entirely, but that’s why I suspect that it’s a technique issue exactly as you’ve said.
I just wanted to make sure I wasn’t doing something dumb regarding the paint compatibility, as that’s totally something I would do .


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[Mr.Micron]

After base coat is done are you scuffing the surface prior to applying the Wicked paint? The only issues I have ever had with Wicked over urethane is when I did not scuff the base coat to make sure I had a good surface to paint on.

 

[twood]

After base coat is done are you scuffing the surface prior to applying the Wicked paint? The only issues I have ever had with Wicked over urethane is when I did not scuff the base coat to make sure I had a good surface to paint on.

A great point....Createx needs a mechanical bond to the base or primer...

 

[SiRoxx]

After base coat is done are you scuffing the surface prior to applying the Wicked paint? The only issues I have ever had with Wicked over urethane is when I did not scuff the base coat to make sure I had a good surface to paint on.

I did wipe with a scotchbrite . As it was a thin layer of solvent to colour some terraslate black, I didn’t want to go too hard. I guess that wouldn’t have helped.

 

[Squishy]

Halfords stuff isn't great, ok, but not great. If you are spraying a bike tank, just be aware that the 1k isn't going to be good for petrol spills.

You might consider getting some paint from an auto paint shop, some will mix any colour and put it in an aerosol if thats what you want. I think?? these guys do https://www.autopaintlowford.co.uk/products/

A good aerosol clear 2k is Spraymax. It has a short use life as it is a true 2k and once the activator has been ....um...activated ...You pretty much need to use it up, but it is proper stuff, uv/petrol resistant etc, and gets a deep glass finish. Pay strict attention to application and flash times, and check it's compatible with your base coat for a tough, quality clear.

 

[SiRoxx]

Thanks for that Squishy. It’s not for anything particular at the moment, I’m learning before tackling a proper project. So it’s only been 1K as I don’t want to waste a whole can of 2K just for some pictures.
I’ve bought some paint from Autopaints Brighton before and they’re pretty good too. Long term I’d like to run clear through a spray gun and do away with cans all together, but for now its just learning the principles.


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[Robbyrockett2]

Yeah hevy coats can do that too. Well good you got it worked out.

 

[SiRoxx]

Yeah hevy coats can do that too. Well good you got it worked out.

Hopefully it’s as simple as that. I’ll know on a couple of days time when I try to clear a finished picture. But I definitely learned about lacquer or enamel in the can and using the time window to figure out which it is.


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[jord001]

I normally use etac 2050 on pics but solvent wise I used Upol 1k clear and have never had an issue but its only been for the odd painting. It usually crazes up if its gone on too thick or the paint underneath isn't cured. I had it happen to me on a bike tank a few years back I did a lovely job too
Your issue could have been a combination of everything you used, Basecoat, artwork paint and the clear.
EG: A couple of years back I sprayed a plastic BB gun for my step son. It was orange and black and he wanted it camo. I scuffed, and adhesion promoted it then primered with a rattle can primer but when I sprayed on inspire solvents for the camo it started to react with the primer. I managed to get round it by being very careful and light coats but now i'm weary of paint in rattle cans.
Spraycans are great if you use all the same make for base, artwork and clear, there's no compatibility issues then. Personally I would either use an automotive waterbased or AutoAir or a 2k base. On the 2k clearcoat subject, Mick's 2k clear is brilliant and so is Quartz liquid glass from sprayguns direct. Proper 2k from a spraygun I think is the best way. My 2 pence worth.

Lee