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Createx 4013

Discussion in 'Airbrush Paints' started by JackEb, Feb 7, 2020.


  1. JackEb

    JackEb The Dragon Hunter Staff Member Admin

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    First things first:
    ***4013 is highly flammable, it needs to be stored appropriately and you need to wear an approved mask when using it***

    Australia will be getting a ‘non flammable’ version due to high import duties but we can add Isopropyl to it (Createxs’ recommendation)

    Now to get the conversations going.

    4012 is no longer listed as an additive on the Createx web site.

    4013 is cited as a suitable replacement for 4011.


    WHY DO CREATEX KEEP CHANGING PRODUCT RECIPES!!

    after all these years I would have thought they could have found a suitable stable and consistent recipe.

    people have complained long and loud about the most recent iterations of reducers going ‘off’ and less than satisfactory performance where major tip dry/seeding of paint is an issue.

    I love their paint but my constant issues with their reducers is getting hard to tolerate and sucking all the fun out of airbrushing. I now have multiple unopened 960ml bottles of 4011/4012 that now likely useless for their intended purpose as they will have gone ‘off’ and only suitable for cleaning.
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  2. AndreZA

    AndreZA Elite Member! Elite Member! Very Likeable!

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    4012/W500 is not the best product they have. It does go bad after a while. I did not have any problem with 4011 and don't know why they changed that. Maybe the 4013 will be better. To me it looks like they want to create a reducer that works with all their ranges even though the ranges uses different binders.
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  3. JackEb

    JackEb The Dragon Hunter Staff Member Admin

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    “Maybe” is a big word for those with limited $$, at what point do you throw your hands up and say ‘enough is enough’ and switch brands !!

    I love their range of colours (I suck at colour mixing, but trying to work on it) but hate the issues I’ve had over the last year
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  4. huskystafford

    huskystafford Needle chucking Ninja Very Likeable!

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    Just wondering. Why are you buying 960ml bottles of reducer? And on top of that, multiple bottles. o_O

    also here is a video for you Jackie
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2020
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  5. JackEb

    JackEb The Dragon Hunter Staff Member Admin

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    Whenever I bought paint I bought large reducer due to generally needing more reducer than paint. Health issues kept me away from painting for a period of time so the bottles have never been used. I saw the video, that’s why I posted the thread. ‘Down under’ can add isopropyl to the non flammable 4013, but my understanding is that you should NEVER spray Iso without appropriate respirator, kind of defeats the ‘less toxic’ appeal of water based paints and a mask instead of a respirator
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  6. huskystafford

    huskystafford Needle chucking Ninja Very Likeable!

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    I guess friend from europe will send you reducer flowed in to bottle of limonade. I hope some custom officer wont try to test and taste that limonade lol
  7. DaveG

    DaveG Detail Decepticon! Very Likeable!

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    If I was to just guess, I would guess that they substituted one type of alcohol (used in 4012) for another type of alcohol in 4013. I'd also not expect to see any type of huge difference in performance - with the exception that the 4013 will not cause the paint to polymerize (break) instantly when added, the way 4012 sometimes can - particularly when it has gone off. When I use Iso/water/glycerin - I get lots of lovely tip dry with CI. I personally don't think they understand what happened, but are trying to fix the issue(s). I will take a wait and see posture on this one...
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  8. SiRoxx

    SiRoxx Party Boy UK Style Very Likeable!

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    I totally get where you’re coming from Jackster. I’ve been lucky in that I’ve only ever bought relatively small bottles and except for 4030, I haven’t had any real problems that weren’t down to me. That said, it’s irritating that Createx and the spokespersons jump up and down about the “go to” products and then back peddle. I think it’s great that they continually develop, but they had to have known about issues with 4012, so why not let us know about it too. It’s not like I wouldn’t have bought any 4012, but airbrush folks would have known to buy smaller bottles at a time.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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  9. huskystafford

    huskystafford Needle chucking Ninja Very Likeable!

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    any reducer which is not from createx works good with createx colors?
  10. Ronald art

    Ronald art Air-Valve Autobot! Very Likeable!

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    any one tried the etac AG 2050 as a reducer for createx? this reducer is made to work with other brands and reduce the tip dry as well I cant tell you if it does as I wont tough createx if even it was the last paint in the world
    I did use the AG 2050 on a few projects and I had no problems with tip dry
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  11. DaveG

    DaveG Detail Decepticon! Very Likeable!

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    I don't think the two products are compatible (createx and E'tac) as they use different alcohols as modifiers - that said, I will go try the 2050 with Createx and report back :thumbsup:
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  12. huskystafford

    huskystafford Needle chucking Ninja Very Likeable!

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    from foxy studio:
    the AG 2050 optimizer is great to use as a varnish to protect your airbrush work, but also as an intermediate clear coat, between the layers you want to give more protection. You can use it pure with a 0,3 mm airbrush or bigger, or you can mix some in your paint for more strength.
    To set the paint, use a hairdryer for a few minutes or let it dry for 48 hours.


    So this is not a reducer?
  13. huskystafford

    huskystafford Needle chucking Ninja Very Likeable!

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    ok, I am going a little overboard with text in this post, but I do wonder if anybody mixed those with createx.

    https://www.goldenpaints.com/products/medium-gels-pastes/additives

    Retarder is an additive used to increase the open (drying) time of acrylic paints. Useful for wet in wet techniques and reducing skinning on the palette. (Item# 3580)

    OPEN Thinner is a water-based additive for thinning the consistency of OPEN Acrylic Colors and Mediums without altering drying time. It also maintains and adjusts the workability of OPEN colors on palettes, and can be used as a thin-bodied retarder with Heavy Body or Fluid Acrylic colors. Because OPEN Thinner contains no binders, it does not form a film and should only be 25% or less of mixtures with acrylic colors and mediums (one part OPEN Thinner to three or more parts paint or meduim). (Item# 3595)

    For more information on OPEN Thinner see the Product Information Sheet.

    Neither Retarder nor OPEN thinner contain binding agents. To ensure adhesion, it is recommended that the addition of Retarder not exceed 15% (1:6), and OPEN Thinner should not exceed 25% (1:3) when mixed with colors or mediums.

    For health and safety information, download the Safety Data Sheet [PDF].



    Wetting Agent [formerly Acrylic Flow Release] is a concentrated additive used to reduce surface tension of the water in the acrylic emulsion, thereby increasing the slickness and flow of the paint. It is effective for achieving rich stains on a porous surface.As with OPEN Thinner and Retarder, Wetting Agent contains no binder and should only be used properly dilluted per product instructions. Not for use by children. Eye Irritant. Inhalation of Spray Mist Harmful. DO NOT SPRAY APPLY(Item# 3590)

    For detailed product information see the Product Information & Application Sheet, for Health and safety information, see the Safety Data Sheet.
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  14. DaveG

    DaveG Detail Decepticon! Very Likeable!

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    OK, I was surprised by the addition of the AG 2050 into Createx Illustration- I first tried 1:1, and watched for any kind of reaction. The two mixed readily, with the Createx seeming to melt into the 2050. I then added 9 more drops of 2050 to the one drop of CI black for a mix of 10:1 and loaded it into a brush I am testing. It sprayed pretty well. Not as free as the E'tac I have been working with, but better than anything mixed with Createx Illustration that I have tried as of late. I was unable to sustain a line with Createx even when reduced 8:1 with 4012, while I was able to keep a line going with the 2050/Createx mix without much trouble. I will need to do more testing with this combination before rendering any type of verdict, but learned enough that I want to keep trying. Thanks Ron!


    husky, I have been moving in different direction. Instead of looking for something to mix with Createx to make it work better, I have been looking at limiting the amount of Createx product I need to deal with. I have been using just the transparent base, and just 4012. The 4012 I only buy in small bottles. I have been mixing Golden High Flow, and several other acrylics with the trans base. This produces the after application properties of Createx Illustration, while limiting the amount of product I have to deal with...
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2020
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  15. Mr.Micron

    Mr.Micron Royal pain in the air hose Admin

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    After having seeding iasues while using thw 4011 4012 I now only use the 4020 automotive reducer. Yes I wear a mask but I wear one when I am spraying anything .
    Createx I feel has not truly found there footing being I can have two bottle of the same color and each one act differtly as far a spraying and the amount of reduction needed for good flow.
    Tip dry is just part of the game even urethane gives tip dry. The 4013 I feel is just another step in the learning process just like 4030,4040 and even the new clear coat is all just trying something and hopes it floats
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2020
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  16. Ronald art

    Ronald art Air-Valve Autobot! Very Likeable!

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    @Dave G. I know Bill Edwards told me it would work with all water based paint brands and it is good to read your results with it I didnt expect createx to change into a paint that sprays like Etac paints but I did expect the AG 2050 to improve the way createx sprays
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  17. DaveG

    DaveG Detail Decepticon! Very Likeable!

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    I need to do a bit more testing - i am also a little confused about the product names and numbers from E'tac. I unfortunately do not have the bottle the stuff I am using came in, just the hand written label I put on the little squeeze bottle I have it in. It is "Condition-air" and is a transparent green color. When I look up AG 2050 I find a photo of a bottle that is clear... but, it could just be a stock photo. I will order more from the place I purchased from ("USAirbrush Supply" - not to be confused with Badgers shop "USA Airbrush Supply")

    I need to give it a shot on some synthetic paper to see if it alters the after spray characteristics that make CI attractive in the first place. If it turns it hard upon dry/cure - then there would be no advantage over something like Golden High Flow (excellent paint, by the way).

    As a side note - I went back into my studio some hours after trying the initial spray test with the Condition-air/CI mix. There was perhaps a single drop left in the plastic palette well I originally mixed them together in, and it was still fluid. CI by itself would have easily been dried up. I thought that was interesting.
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  18. Ronald art

    Ronald art Air-Valve Autobot! Very Likeable!

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    @Dave G. the AG 2050 has a milky white colour and dries up to a clear the condition air has a green colour and is mend to be mixed with water like 1 drop to 60 ml and is made to reduce dry tip during extreme warm weather conditions so I guess you didnt get the AG 2050 :(
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  19. DaveG

    DaveG Detail Decepticon! Very Likeable!

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    I just ordered more of everything ;). I do have some stuff that is milky-white too... but am pretty sure it is simply a transparent base for EFX.
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  20. Kim McCann

    Kim McCann Triple Actioner

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    I've never had reducer go "off". I bought some very large bottles of 4011 and 4012 years ago and they are still good today. I keep them in a temperature controlled environment and out of direct light tho. So maybe if you store them right, they last longer.

    I did however once get a 1L bottle (32oz) of 4012/W500 "brand new" that INSTANTLY seeded any paint it was added to. Maybe it wasn't in fact new, but sat on a shelf in a warehouse for a long period before it got to me. Had to throw it out. Never saw anything else like it. The second it hit wicked colors, they instantly turned to a mixture of clear liquid and clumps of plastic gloop and hard chunks. They replaced the bottle, and no problems after that.

    I haven't tried 4013, but I am pretty happy with 4011. I find it works way better for me than 4012 in general.

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