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Createx Illustration! Arghh!!

Discussion in 'Airbrushes' started by GregStith, Aug 14, 2017.


  1. GregStith

    GregStith Air-Valve Autobot! Very Likeable!

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    Ok. I'm trying to figure why I'm having such problems with this paint. I think I may see why the problem. In the first video I have 2 drops moss green, 1 drop black, 30 drops 4012 reducer. I let it cook for 10 minutes. I sprayed a squiggly line (25 psi) until the paint stops flowing. I then release the trigger and a blob of paint comes out. I do it a second time and the same thing.

    I know this is normally attributed to a dirty nozzle but I've soaked it in restorer, just used an old needle and a small interdental brush and got nothing out. I don't know why but some of the CI paints are way thicker or just don't flow as well as others. Bad paint or normal? Do you think the gun is fine and it's a paint issue?
    The second video is showing the flow rates of moss green first and then black. The black is like water by comparison.


    Don't know why the sound is so bad. The airbrush definitely doesn't sound like that. :eek:






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  2. kylegabbert

    kylegabbert Double Actioner

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    Do you strain them first? My moss green would do the same thing, omce i started to strain everything, my problems went away
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  3. DaveG

    DaveG Airbush Analyst Very Likeable!

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    Hmm, I do not have that sort of problem with mine - although I cook my mix a little differently. I generally use something like 4 drops paint, 4 drops tarns base, and 4 to 6 drops 4012. I will usually add the 4 drops of 4012, and test - if I don't have a good paint flow, I add another drop of 4012, etc... I have never found need to go with more 4012 (although, at times I do add 4030 ;))

    I do find that some colors are more difficult than others! For me, with Illustration, it is the Orange that is a no go. I tried it in everything including my Infinity CR with a .4 set up and had difficulty spraying it. Anther one I find a bit tough is the Sepia, which does require more reduction, and more frequent tip picking. I have used the Moss Green pretty extensively in some of my wildlife illustration without much issue.
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2017
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  4. GregStith

    GregStith Air-Valve Autobot! Very Likeable!

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    Oops. I knew I forgot to mention that. Yes I did strain it. :thumbsup:
  5. GregStith

    GregStith Air-Valve Autobot! Very Likeable!

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    Wow. There is no way I could get by with that ratio. I'm at 1:10 paint:reducer ratio and having this issue. So weird how different peoples ratios are.
    Funny you mention 4030, I'm testing it right now. :)
  6. Leakyvalve

    Leakyvalve Mac-Valve Maestro! Very Likeable!

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    Do you have any 4020... I started using and actually letting it burn in and it has been a game changer for me. It even worked across brands... something even 4012 wouldn't do.

    Edit.. I don't use CI, though.
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  7. GregStith

    GregStith Air-Valve Autobot! Very Likeable!

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    No I haven't tried it yet. I'd like to stay away from it because of the acetone if I can but if nothing else works I'll give it a shot. Thanks. :)
  8. DaveG

    DaveG Airbush Analyst Very Likeable!

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    I know - some people drip it right out of the bottle and go. I could never do that! Cant get paint flow to initiate, or wind up with tip dry like crazy.

    I have a bottle of mix - it is 50/50 4102, and 4030 that I have been experimenting with (on recommendation from some of the Berlin airbrush gang). Using it for reduction has the paint spraying quite well, and easy to use, but you give up some of the after spray work-ability. No erasing and such but I don't use those techniques much.
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  9. markjthomson

    markjthomson AKA QuickDraw and very happy #nobrushleftbehind Staff Member Admin

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    Wonder how much humidity affects it... How old is the moss green...? Doesn't look anywhere near viscous enough.
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  10. GregStith

    GregStith Air-Valve Autobot! Very Likeable!

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    I bought the paint a year ago. The humidity is 49%. Some of these paints definitely aren't as viscous as others. I don't know if that's normal because of the different pigments or not.


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  11. markjthomson

    markjthomson AKA QuickDraw and very happy #nobrushleftbehind Staff Member Admin

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    Yes curious indeed. With the Golden High Flow I find the blues are more likely to clog. Be worth contacting CI about it I think, see if they have any input. Might be a batch problem.
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  12. GregStith

    GregStith Air-Valve Autobot! Very Likeable!

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    Just might do that if I can't find a solution. I'm pretty hyper and scattered a lot of the time so I hope it's just something really dumb on my part and its simple to fix. :D:D
  13. Jurien72

    Jurien72 Have Airbrush - Will Travel! Very Likeable!

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    I really gotta get a bottle of CI and see how it works!
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  14. RebelAir

    RebelAir Air-Valve Autobot!

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    Interesting and prob no easy answer, have noticed in some brands some paints are naturally thicker. one thing about the CI and this is coming from someone who's never used it, but from reading other posts here in the past am wondering something, if some company's particularly overpack certain colors with more pigment simply to try to make a semi or more naturally trans pigment appear more opaque. Grind something to small perhaps in a particular type of pigment you may also change its opaqueness perhaps the saturation of the paint is more important to the line than say its thickness as saturation for us is the difference between a good painting and a line we just buggered having to do another pass..In such a situation I would reduce less but pressure up, if the color doesn't saturate in that first past to what I want it to even if that's 100%, if you over reduce it, it will binder breakdown at some point and likely will go grainy no matter how good the paint brand is. I liken the idea to say a bucket of sand that's very fine, add water till its a slushy mush, the particles tend to clump but will suspend better due to the specific gravity of the lighter molecule compared to a heavier one..Grind it to much though and perhaps that sand becomes more trans and more has to be added to kind of compensate making it a fine sludgy kind of paint compared to say simply the same kind of grind on a pigment that may not become more transparent and retain that opaqueness better thus less is needed for the same saturation need so will seem less sludgy, but say a bigger ground sand will suspend in the water for a time but then settles, but at that first moment you add water and have that good mix between sand and water i think you'd find if you then poor both out from the bucket, the very finely ground sand will not pour out as cleanly as the larger particle sand and actually encourages blockages as the molecules fit and lock in a much finer matrix..I don't know if I'm making sense here but hope you know what I mean and it doesn't confuse the issue as it is just an idea.

    another idea, perhaps replacing some binder (If you can get it) you can buy acrylic medium extenders, binders and the like but obviously using such you may affect that saturation need you may have or want and over reduce it to the shiz or trying a different reducer eg have you just tried reducing it with water to see what it does or is CI a brand thats waterbased but you can't add water too LOL, or keep it a touch thicker and up the PSI or try a different thinner even..One reason many paints big in high replication portraits is specifically to be able to paint at higher pressures, seems many these days seem to think lower pressure is more ideal, it is only when doing A4 sized work , work bigger, higher pressure and I rarely get broken lines and the like

    or mix your own green LOL. If the blue and yellow are all good and runny, use them instead.
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  15. GregStith

    GregStith Air-Valve Autobot! Very Likeable!

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    Wow a ton of info! Thank you! :)
    Yeah I have a lot of tinkering to try on this. I definitely have a much easier time with Etac but since I'm trying out some synthetic paper I figured I'd try CI again.
    What paint do you use?
  16. Dawid

    Dawid Double Actioner

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    If its Ultramarine Blue from High Flow it will give you always a problem becouse is inorganic pigment so particles are not as small as organic... other blues from this line of paint go smooth for me...
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  17. Dawid

    Dawid Double Actioner

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    I test Createx Illustration and got alot of problrms whit them also the one you got... i givit up whit them and move on. I wont to be a painter not a chemist :))
  18. markjthomson

    markjthomson AKA QuickDraw and very happy #nobrushleftbehind Staff Member Admin

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    Ah yes it is indeed - I got it special for making payne's grey but it makes nasty stuff indeed! What a pain. I'll use the normal trans blue. The Payne's Grey they do in the standard golden is bluer than I like.
  19. Dawid

    Dawid Double Actioner

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    You can change it whit Holbain Acrylic Ink Ultramarine Blue its the same pigment nr but litelbit diferend (lighter) from Golden but its go good thru 0.18 nozzle.
  20. Airbrush Dreams

    Airbrush Dreams Air-Valve Autobot! Very Likeable!

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    In response to the video and you noting the 30 drops of reducer. One you should drop you air way lower with that much reduce. Two you are stopping the movement of your had and air slightly before you are stopping the paint flow which is causing a little blob of paint popping off the needle tip. I have this happen a lot. I am going to repeat this once again. Seal all your threads with beeswax. It fixed everything that you are showing here. Unscrew the nozzle part way and put a small amount of beeswax on the thread with a toothpick. Then run a lighter unde go a split second just to melt the wax. Then quickly thread the nozzle the rest of the way in while the wax is still real soft! Wipe off any excess wax. Then do the head in the same manner. Please note you are not heating the head just barely touch the wax from below so it runs down around the thread to make a complete seal. I have been so frustrated with Createx for years and it was all due to warn threads and bad seals on my Iwata airbrush. I have sealed all my brushes and now the CI flowed perfectly. I only need to reduce down to a 3 to 1 reducer/paint ratio. And my air pressure is around 23 psi. The more reducer the lower my air will go. I was ready to throw 3 sets of paint in the garbage because of everything you showed. Hope this helps.


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