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Createx Illustration Seeding

Discussion in 'Paints' started by SiRoxx, Apr 7, 2020.


  1. SiRoxx

    SiRoxx Party Boy UK Style Staff Member Mod Very Likeable!

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    Hi Everyone,
    What I have here is a new bottle of CI Violet and a month old bottle of the new 4011 Reducer. I had 10 drops of Paint and added 15 drops of reducer. Stirred for a minute, let it sit for 10 mins (honestly, I had a timer :D). This is what I ended up with in the mixing pot and in the paint cup. 542E665D-4EC7-456F-B74F-F50DF5BDED30.jpeg 51A1E4BB-86C1-46DF-BDA7-C476A23B0B35.jpeg I have no idea why it’s seeding like this.
    I tried the exact same reducer at the same ratio with an older bottle of CI Black and that was totally fine after sitting for 10 mins. Anybody have any ideas?
    Thank you in advance.
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  2. jord001

    jord001 Air-Valve Autobot!

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    That's not good, however I can't help you on this one. Sorry mate. Hopefully someone will pop on in a bit and give you some answers..

    Lee
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  3. JackEb

    JackEb The Dragon Hunter Staff Member Admin

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    That sounds strange for 4011, I’d serious suggest sending that info to Createx tech while you wait for suggestions. Unfortunately I have no idea, 4012 is the usual suspect
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  4. Mr.Micron

    Mr.Micron Royal pain in the air hose Staff Member Admin Mod

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    Some colors act differently to the different reducers , That is why I mainly stick to the 4020 automotive reducer I have never had seeding with it on any color or candy . I am trying the new 4013 .
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  5. SiRoxx

    SiRoxx Party Boy UK Style Staff Member Mod Very Likeable!

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    It is a weird one. The seeding didn’t cause any blockage or noticeable issue with spraying, it’s just weird.
    I will send the pics to Createx and see what they think.
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  6. twood

    twood Detail Decepticon! Very Likeable!

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    It sounds like you added the reducer to the paint. Try adding the paint to reducer. If that makes sense?....
    I found that certain colors react if the reducer is added 2nd. I always do it in this order and have had good luck. It has something to do with shocking the paint. Just a thought....
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  7. Mr.Micron

    Mr.Micron Royal pain in the air hose Staff Member Admin Mod

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    I am like @twood I always add the reducer first .
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  8. Kai Halonen

    Kai Halonen Double Actioner

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    I had same issue whit Illustration sepia.
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2020
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  9. Kim McCann

    Kim McCann Needle-chuck Ninja

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    Interesting. I was having that problem a LOT with wicked magenta and 4012, though I've never had it yet with 4011. I went so far as to put my entire bottle of magenta through a filter and re-bottle it and try again, and the same problem crept up. I tried a brand new bottle of magenta and didn't have the problem. I learned later that there had been a shift in the paint forumla to meet new safety regs, and that there was an issue with 4012 and some older bottles of paint. I'm wondering if something similar might be going on here.

    I just tried mixing a little 4011 with my CI violet and left it for 10 minutes. No issues yet. I'm thinking that maybe you got a bad bottle of paint, like I did with wicked magenta that time. I'd definitely reach out to createx.

    Out of curiosity, have you tried filtering the paint to make sure that it hasn't developed chunks in the bottle that you don't see until you reduce it? I run my paint through some dollar store pantyhose if I am suspicious that it has started to "go off" or dry out, just to eliminate the possibility.

    I've also been using the newer 4013 for the last week, having finally gotten my hands on a bottle, and even with the problematic Wicked paints that had this issue, it seems to have cleared it up.

    Odd that is was 4011 that did this tho. That is new to me. Also, I haven't had it happen with Illustration yet. But maybe I have just been lucky.
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  10. SiRoxx

    SiRoxx Party Boy UK Style Staff Member Mod Very Likeable!

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    I’ll give that a try Buddy, thanks.
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  11. SiRoxx

    SiRoxx Party Boy UK Style Staff Member Mod Very Likeable!

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    That’s good to know.
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  12. SiRoxx

    SiRoxx Party Boy UK Style Staff Member Mod Very Likeable!

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    I have had issues like this in the past but not with CI. I spoke to the supplier and they also think it might just be a bad bottle.
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  13. SiRoxx

    SiRoxx Party Boy UK Style Staff Member Mod Very Likeable!

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    I haven’t heard back from Createx yet, but did here back from Simon Murray who I bought the paint from. He’s also the Createx point of contact for the U.K. and Europe. He tested another bottle on his shelf and didn’t have any issue, so I’d sending a replacement bottle.
    He thinks maybe it had frozen somewhere along the line, but thinks it could just be a bad bottle. Either way, when I’ve had issues in the past Createx have always replaced the bottle, so between then and SM Designs I have yet to be let down.
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  14. retiredgarnham

    retiredgarnham Triple Actioner

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    Just bought a bottle of 4012 to go with a fresh bottle of white. Tried the reducer with all 9 of my 4yr old CI colours, and my faith in Createx has been restored!! Not one issue. Every single paint flowing superbly. Next to zero tip dry and now I am a happy bunny for now. As for the problem of seeding I also used to get this in most of my CI paints, that's one of the reasons why I lost faith with Createx Illustration.
    Iv'e heard such bad reports on 4012 but with the lock down and needing white I couldn't get hold of any EFX because our only stockist in the UK has gone into total lock down and wont deliver. As I have an outlet for all other makes literally 5 mins away, a quick phone call and an hour later I picked up my purchases with trepidation. Looks like it was my lucky day.
    Stay safe everyone.
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  15. SiRoxx

    SiRoxx Party Boy UK Style Staff Member Mod Very Likeable!

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    I got a reply from Createx. It’s a bit of an weird one as it doesn’t explain why the older bottle of Black was fine, but new information is always good. And I’m always open to being told I was wrong.
    This is here for information purposes not to start a bitching session about Createx :). I’m happy with the information supplied.
    From Createx:
    We recommend a 5% - 10% per volume reduction of Illustration Colors with 4011 Reducer. You’re mix is over 100%, which will create seedig of the pigment.

    Illustration Colors are designed for use straight-from-the-bottle, without reduction, through a small tip-sized airbrush such as the Iwata Micron.


    If reducing past our recommended 10% per volume, add in small increments of ~ 5% reducer at a time. There’s no need to reduce the paint past 100%.

    To extend color for increased transparency, use 5090 Illustration Transparent Base.

    That wasn’t all of the email, just the relevant parts. It’s interesting because I know I’m not the only one who over reduced their paint, but I’m going to go with their recommendation and see how I get on.
    I’m also going to try the suggestion from @twood and @Mr.Micron for comparison.
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  16. Kai Halonen

    Kai Halonen Double Actioner

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    I dint reducers the Illustration it whas straight from the bottle and it was seedig.
    The send me a new bottle.
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  17. jagardn

    jagardn Airbrush Acquisition Disorder Patient Forum Supporter

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    I've only ever had seeding problems with 4012. For me, Sap Green and Black were the only colors I had the issue with.
    With Illustration Colors, I generally reduce around 10:1 with no issues.

    Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk
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  18. SiRoxx

    SiRoxx Party Boy UK Style Staff Member Mod Very Likeable!

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    That’s good to know as well. I new a bunch of other people were reducing as much or more than I was, which I why I found their reply interesting.
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  19. jagardn

    jagardn Airbrush Acquisition Disorder Patient Forum Supporter

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    Had to correct my statement. I think it's called Moss Green for CI, not Sap Green.

    Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk
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  20. SiRoxx

    SiRoxx Party Boy UK Style Staff Member Mod Very Likeable!

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    This is the result of some experimenting today.
    On the left is a 1:1 ratio with 4011 Reducer going in the cup first.
    On the right is Createx’s recommended 5-10% reduction again with 4011.
    [​IMG]

    Next is another 1:1 reduction, this time with 4020 Reducer going in the cup first.

    [​IMG]

    I think it’s probably safe to say the bottle of paint is the issue. The only other variable would be the cups I’m using to mix.
    I will try a mix in a different cup but being that it seems to continue to seed when it’s in the airbrush, I’m not confident that the cup is the cause.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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