Getting black

[Justin Sane]

Hey guys, I'm sure their is probably already a post about this, but I'm struggling to achieve black. I have black in both opaque and trans through Madea comart, but no matter how much I reduce, they spray grainy. I'm new, and only have a few primary colors through comart, and illustration secondary from Createx. So I was told you can get a nice black by mixing purple, blue, and brown.

No matter what ratios I use, I can't get my violet, blue and burnt umber to make black. These are the closest I have to purple and brown. Am I wasting my time trying, or have I not hit the right mix?

 

[Robbyrockett2]

Hey guys, I'm sure their is probably already a post about this, but I'm struggling to achieve black. I have black in both opaque and trans through Madea comart, but no matter how much I reduce, they spray grainy. I'm new, and only have a few primary colors through comart, and illustration secondary from Createx. So I was told you can get a nice black by mixing purple, blue, and brown.

No matter what ratios I use, I can't get my violet, blue and burnt umber to make black. These are the closest I have to purple and brown. Am I wasting my time trying, or have I not hit the right mix?

It gets you more of an approximate black anyhow, ( really really dark grey) one that will need stirred to death to make the same color again.

I would start with blue, add a tiny amount of violet, then start adding tiny amounts of that mixture to the umber.

It's so touchy no ratio is going to get you close, all I can say is it only takes a tinge of purple and then small amounts to shift the umber into that " grey " zone.

You can test your mix by taking a bit aside and seeing how much white you have to add before it turns grey, the less the better and you'll be able to see how the grey leans in order to add it's compliment if your very far off.

 

[JackEb]

Hey guys, I'm sure their is probably already a post about this, but I'm struggling to achieve black. I have black in both opaque and trans through Madea comart, but no matter how much I reduce, they spray grainy. I'm new, and only have a few primary colors through comart, and illustration secondary from Createx. So I was told you can get a nice black by mixing purple, blue, and brown.

No matter what ratios I use, I can't get my violet, blue and burnt umber to make black. These are the closest I have to purple and brown. Am I wasting my time trying, or have I not hit the right mix?

I'm the last person to advice on colour mixing, so I'll leave that to those that know much better than I.

You say you have Com-art opaque black and white, but its spraying grainy no matter how much you reduce. . . . from my experience you shouldnt need to reduce the com-art (and if you do it should only need water)......
Createx Illustration more often than not will need a little reduction - with 4012 reducer-

In your intro post you mentioned you have an Iwata Eclipse C, Neo for Iwata, and a cheap Masters .2 mil MAC detail brush.
Com art should spray straight from the bottle with the Eclipse and Neo at the 30PSI you mentioned you normally have it set at, with the .2 masters you may have the mac valve wound in to far.

you may have to play with the PSI a little to get the best atomisation. what I set here in Australia may be unsuitable for you in the US (differing environmental conditions)
"grainy" could be just wrong PSI , thats where the MAC valves come in handy... set the compressor with the Mac wide open, and the trigger depressed.
on a spare piece of paper and a drop or two of comart keep reducing the air with the MAC valve until its no longer grainy.

Remember that the PSI on the gauge on the tank should be adjusted to your desired PSI with the 'air on' at the airbrush.

 

[huskystafford]

I had an issue not with black, Green color if I remember correctly(createx wicked), when I sprayed it, it was grainy. I sprayed on plastic, 30 psi and I needed to add reducer in amount: 10 drops of paint 3 drops of reducer and mix it well. 0.5 nozzle. Kinda sounds weird when you talking no matter how much you reduce. What exactly is that? I also experienced with spraying on plastic again I got grains cause I was to far away from plastic and color dried in the air before hitting that plastic. At least that is my opinion

So, what exactly are you spraying, what was the max amount you reduced, how much psi u use and how far are you from that thing you are spraying? Just wondering. I'm curios. And just in case, you need to mix/shake color before you use it. Didn't read your introduction.

 

[JackEb]

Ps. It could also be what is known as ‘dry spray’ which means you are far enough away from your substrate that the paint is drying before it hits the substrate (but still wet enough to stick)

It could also be top dry ?!

Can you upload a photo of the offending spray pattern ?

 

[huskystafford]

Ps. It could also be what is known as ‘dry spray’ which means you are far enough away from your substrate that the paint is drying before it hits the substrate (but still wet enough to stick)

I already mentioned that. Beat you to it

 

[JackEb]

I already mentioned that. Beat you to it

Haha, I should have looked before I posted at least we agree on something other than ‘Dragons Rock’

 

[Justin Sane]

I run at 20-30 ps.i. depending on the brush, and the rest of my comart paint flows nicely, it's just the opaque and even transparent that has this grain to it. I'm anywhere from a centimeter or two away to a few inches, so I doubt that it's drying in the air, but perhaps I'm wrong. I just can't seem to get it to blend or fade nicely. I actually have a bit of graininess in my miss green illustration as well, but it can be reduced down to mitigate. As for reduction, I do anywhere from 10 to1 to 1 to 1, depending on what kind of a wash I want, but as mentioned above, the comart paints are already pretty thin, and they get over reduced very quickly. Anyway, that's why I was hoping to make my own black with a softer fade, blend ability, but I'm thinking I may not have the right colors, or I'm just such a noob at color mixing I can't get it right!

 

[Mr.Micron]

By grainy what do you mean . I only have grainy looking black if my air pressure is to low for the reduction I have the paint at.
Com-art will spray through my micron with out reduction and the black needs a bit more air then most colors except white. So when I am spraying black I am at 30 to 35 PSI while most of the com-art colors will spray at 15 to 20 PSI.
Also what airbrush are you using.

 

[Justin Sane]

Eclipse hp c, and neo mostly, and I mean that there are larger specks in the blend or shaded area with it. It doesn't seem to be smooth like the other colors I have, I noticed my Moss green is like that as well, but I usually cap my pressure around 30, so I'll try to run a little higher and see if that helps the issue. Thanks for all the feedback guys, I have about 25 hours on this at most, and this stuff is invaluable!

 

[huskystafford]

spitting?

 

[JackEb]

spitting?

It does sound a bit like tip dry doesn’t it !

@Justin Sane, Tip dry is when you have a build up of paint on the tip of the needle and when you least expect it your next press of the trigger will provide random speckles on your work. Createx white is well known for it, Moss green is another “problem” paint but I have problems across the board with Createx, the joy of living in a dry climate (and my technique probably needs work)
I only have Com-art white but don’t have much of a problem. I also use E’tac and have minimal top dry.

Pics of the problem may be helpful- just throw some paint on a scrap bit of paper

 

[huskystafford]

It does sound a bit like tip dry doesn’t it !

@Justin Sane, Tip dry is when you have a build up of paint on the tip of the needle and when you least expect it your next press of the trigger will provide random speckles on your work. Createx white is well known for it, Moss green is another “problem” paint but I have problems across the board with Createx, the joy of living in a dry climate (and my technique probably needs work)
I only have Com-art white but don’t have much of a problem. I also use E’tac and have minimal top dry.

Yep. I didn't want to mention tip dry so OP wouldn't be sending me to hell, cause I bother him with what he already knows - that he needs to clean the needle. -.- Maybe he doesn't, we will find out soon.

 

[huskystafford]

This guy sprayed bunch of different combinations so you can see the difference. May help you.

 

[JackEb]

Yep. I didn't want to mention tip dry so OP wouldn't be sending me to hell, cause I bother him with what he already knows - that he needs to clean the needle. -.- Maybe he doesn't, we will find out soon.

Tip dry is the evil side of waterborne paint
Some days im picking at it constantly, other days I may get a minute or two. I’m waiting for @Robbyrockett2 & @DaveG to get another supply of space needles happening

 

[huskystafford]

Tip dry is the evil side of waterborne paint
Some days im picking at it constantly, other days I may get a minute or two. I’m waiting for @Robbyrockett2 & @DaveG to get another supply of space needles happening

I have tip dry all the time... I just wait until airbrush won't shoot anymore like it did few moments ago and I clean the needle. But I would love to get a wife with nails so she can pick needle an I just enjoy the good part of airbrushing

 

[wickedartstudio]

The other have you pretty well covered reference the separability issues you're having. Another option for getting a very dark, almost black color, is mixing your paint on the canvas as opposed to in the cup. A base of a good dark blue (cobalt works well) followed by a few coats of sepia will produce an almost black color.

 

[Justin Sane]

Tip dry is when you have a build up of paint on the tip of the needle and when you least expect it your next press of the trigger will provide random speckles on your work. Createx white is well known for it, Moss green is another “problem” paint but I have problems across the board with Createx, the joy of living in a dry climate (and my technique probably needs work)
I only have Com-art white but don’t have much of a problem. I also use E’tac and have minimal top dry.
Pics of the problem may be helpful- just throw some paint on a scrap bit of paper

It's not tip dry, I learned about that the hard way dealing Createx textiles, . I'm gonna spit some paint today and take a pic, the last couple days were insanely busy, but I really appreciate the help guys! Maybe I'm not explaining the spray pattern well, and it could just be that black seems to have a bit larger of a pigment, I'm not sure...white gives me hell for tip dry, but I'll shoot the "offending pattern" , and see what y'all think...could it be my paint going bad?

 

[beanpoleuk]

Have you tried mixing the opaque black with the comart medium it helps flow quite a bit and certainly reduces the grainy effect. I too like to mix a little blue with the black to get a nice rich black.

Sent from my SM-J500FN using Tapatalk

 

[Justin Sane]

Of course it can barely be made out in this pic, but these specks of paint are like tiny dots, making a less subtle fade than the rest of my colors.