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Improving The Airbrush...

Discussion in 'Airbrushes' started by Vladimir, Dec 12, 2018.


  1. SiRoxx

    SiRoxx Party Boy UK Style Staff Member Mod Very Likeable!

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    I guess visually I like the one piece more. It just looks so sleek and I love the idea of less possible leaks in the system. But of course the separate pieces are nice for cleaning or replacing parts. Very nice work my friend.
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  2. Ronald art

    Ronald art Air-Valve Autobot! Very Likeable!

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    I like the 2 piece head but would like to see a 2 sprong needle guard on it
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  3. Vladimir

    Vladimir Detail Decepticon! Very Likeable!

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    Thanx Simon!
    In reality the one "one piece" is not one piece:) It's just made that good, you do not see two parts;) Sometimes such quality happens.

    Thanx Ronald!
    I think on the design that would accept pronged protection, but anything that easy for cleaning as both designs above doesn't come into my mind for now.
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  4. Ronald art

    Ronald art Air-Valve Autobot! Very Likeable!

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    a 2 sprong protection would allow easy cleaning I use a old paintbrush and a little water to clean my needle with the 2 sprong protection on it
    having said that I need the 2 sprong protection as I have to much trouble seeing the distance between the airbrush and the substrate
    the big plus of that smooth head the protection would slide on and can be set to all positions as I know most like the 3 to 9 position but I like the 12 to 6 position :)
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  5. DaveG

    DaveG Airbush Analyst Very Likeable!

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    They look really nice and clean. I prefer the added angles and detail found on your Olympos. Without going too into details, if you didn't use an Iwata cap on the Olympos, you probably could have (to reduce that exit hole). The newer Iwata pieces may have a bit of a shoulder near the base of the threads that might need addressing in order to seat fully into the Olympos pieces.
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  6. Vladimir

    Vladimir Detail Decepticon! Very Likeable!

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    I just thought why you needed that protection and you replied just the way I thought.
    I think, Robbie's needle would work fine for this type of unprotected head. Will try everything (all the improvement to the date) in one charged micron.

    I'm with you, Dave. I'll work further on this design or smth similar, I suppose. It feels like this should be developed.

    The hole is reduced, this measure works. Perfect centering etc:) And it's not possible to get achieved results with both caps you mentioned, so...;)
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  7. Vladimir

    Vladimir Detail Decepticon! Very Likeable!

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    Guys, having read your posts again I've realized, that I liked one head design for being sleek for the reason of literally "one turn cleaning" with a rag with the solvent and another head for visual appearance. An idea came, that better design lies in between of these two! So, I need to combine them, though it will be third attempt design taking the best features of the previous two.

    Forgotten to mention, it seems like I know now how to make some other AB models to become finer airbrushes. The latest experiments with the heads proved that. I think, one of my HP will spray like micron soon, or extremely close to it;)
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  8. DaveG

    DaveG Airbush Analyst Very Likeable!

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    the design of the Olympos 200 nozzle cap is pretty spiffy - although they blew it with the size of the exit hole. It was a clever idea how to control the airflow around and past the nozzle. It is the cap on the right in this photo -

    2oo_B nozzle cap.jpg
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  9. Vladimir

    Vladimir Detail Decepticon! Very Likeable!

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    You wouldn't believe, but I thought about the 200's air cap. Maybe at the very time you were posting the picture:) I don't have 200's series (any), so wanted to ask you what they did there. I can predict that inner design is like micron's. Can't say that from the photo, as the insides are not visible.
    Could you take the picture of HP-C and 200's nozzle side by side in order the insides would be visible well? And 0,18 micron air cap would be great at that photo... Iwata's cap.
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  10. DaveG

    DaveG Airbush Analyst Very Likeable!

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    HP-C nozzle? Hmmm, I know what you are doing ;). I have been working on exactly the same thing, I believe. I started writing about it on my FB page a couple of weeks go, or at least dropping hints.

    On the Oympos 200 air cap, there is a sleeve pressed into the cap. The cap itself is exactly the same as an HP-B cap on the inside, with the exception of the inner bore is made straight, rather than tapered. The sleeve then pressed in. The dimensions create a space the same volume and approximate shape as that within the Olympos Micron air cap. The exit bore is quite large, however.

    I think I can take the photo's you are asking about, and will work on them this afternoon.

    If you have access to Procon GSI parts, you may want to consider looking at the PS770 nozzle. It is different, but I believe it would work in your application. I am currently working with one in an HP-B with a different nozzle cap, and am seeing very pleasing results.
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  11. Vladimir

    Vladimir Detail Decepticon! Very Likeable!

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    So, I was the first to get the results!?:) If you know what I'm doing;)
    BTW one thought about the improving the head and the air cap came when I was working on improving HP-C last year. Some more work I will involve this time.

    I visited your FB quite a while ago. Need to go there just to know fresh news:)

    That was their mistake to do what they did or, more likely, that's just marketing. You know well what could be done and where;) But sometimes money above all, I mean incomes:) Some series would be useless, you know what I'm saying;)

    Your afternoon is going to be my deep night and more deeper sleep:D But good thing is, I'll have the photo in the morning:)

    The cheapest price is from the spraygunner?

    Maybe will try somehow. But in our case not the nozzle is important, if we're talking about the material nozzle. It has minor affect on the performance.
    BTW, could you take a picture of 770's and 0,18 Iwata and Olympos side by side? It's interesting to have a glance on them.
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  12. DaveG

    DaveG Airbush Analyst Very Likeable!

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    I think the design was a sincere attempt to get Micron like performance from a standard head design, at a reduced manufacturing cost. It is a step that would fits with the MP, and SP series, with higher performance potential over the original HP series. Not sure they achieved what they were after though, as things have evolved since then. As you know, air cap orifices have grown smaller and smaller, and needle tapers shorter over the years.

    Spraygunner is awesome, but it may be easier going through air-craft.net in the UK?

    I'll add that to the wish list of photo's - they may have to wait until morning here -as I got a few new things in to play with ;)
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  13. MarcosD

    MarcosD Detail Decepticon! Very Likeable!

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    Air-craft.net has better prices than spraygunner.


    Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk
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  14. Vladimir

    Vladimir Detail Decepticon! Very Likeable!

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    Maybe you're right. I think we'll never know what they did, but knowing that would be great.
    It's hard to believe that they din't pay attention to angles, diameters etc. I don't think they acted with closed eyes. Though, it looks like that:) I really would like to know their manufacturing logic. Sometimes their solutions were either not that smart or worked toward the things I mentioned above.

    They haven't guessed about what can give the most straight air flow for the fine detail airbrush within MP and SP. Besides that, haven't done smth in the MP base to get better performance.

    BTW, one model is currently sold in the US at BearAir. The model with MP/SP/Micron air cap. Did you have a chance to try it?

    Yeah, the orifices of the latest 0,18mm are real smaller than of back years. I've done even more smaller;) Try it and you'll like it!
    It seems they don't do any developing now. Just use their 40 years old drawings. Cosmetic changes we're not taking into account.

    Generally, they should improve a little bit what Mr. Wold did a century ago, but not doing four dozens of models that can be reduced to one at most, that would cover all the needs. Only different nozzle diameters (and other parts related to the diameter) would be required.

    OK! I can afford one day of not working plant:D
    Thanx in advance!



    Thanx, guys! Will think over this!
    Need to look at the prices and delivery charges from UK.
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  15. SiRoxx

    SiRoxx Party Boy UK Style Staff Member Mod Very Likeable!

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    Wow!! I could not see any join at all. That is some precision work my friend.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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  16. Vladimir

    Vladimir Detail Decepticon! Very Likeable!

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    It wasn't the goal to get that joint:) Though, it's fun to unscrew "one" part. Such a perfect joint is not required in this place, but the precision for other parts is a must, as there's no other way to get good spraying performance. For some parts of the head getting this kind of precision takes tons of time, effort and a lot of manual labor, making final product kinda the art tool jewelry.
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  17. DaveG

    DaveG Airbush Analyst Very Likeable!

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    @Vladimir - Let me know what I may have missed -

    DSC_6397_01.jpg DSC_6395.jpg DSC_6394.jpg DSC_6399_01.jpg DSC_6398_01.jpg DSC_6374_01.jpg
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2019
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  18. DaveG

    DaveG Airbush Analyst Very Likeable!

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    did you want the hp-c and olympos 200B nozzles side by side?

    DSC_6401_01.jpg DSC_6404_01.jpg
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2019
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  19. Vladimir

    Vladimir Detail Decepticon! Very Likeable!

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    That is just great, Dave!:thumbsup: Nothing's missed! Thank you for the photos!
    Better things can be only having the parts in my hands to judge about the manufacturing logic, steps and quality.


    Yes!

    BTW, are MP and 200's nozzles the same? I believe so, but you've got both nozzles:)

    For my ideas Olympos material nozzle is the best. But I think over other japanese nozzles to use;) Experimenting would show what's best.


    Your new toy looks sweet!:thumbsup:
    I did similar lid to my "B" knockoff micron, only without the circles on it.
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  20. DaveG

    DaveG Airbush Analyst Very Likeable!

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    Don't forget, all of the parts pictured were actually produced by the same facility - even though branded across different lines.

    My first 2 200B's had nozzles that looked a bit more convex coming off the base, but the rest have all been concave, and I would say the same as the MP/SP 200.

    For me, testing across a broad range of the available parts - I have every Micorn combination produced, and a few "Miron like" candidates - what I see is that the Olympos style set up produces the finest atomization, or grain to the spray, while the larger nozzle, short taper of the Iwata style Micron produces the cleanest edges, and smallest details with less tip dry as a bonus.

    I am working with not just nozzle size, or air cap size, but the relationship between them... and then the needle.
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