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Iwata Eclipse trigger question

Discussion in 'Airbrushes' started by Splat, Oct 3, 2016.


  1. Splat

    Splat Guest

    I've been pouring my soul into learning my new HP-CS this week. I have a couple questions regarding the trigger now that I'm not sure if its just me, or I just have to work through them.
    First is the takeup on the trigger before the flow starts. There is the slightest bit of pretravel that makes it less than ideal (for me) when trying to start a line at a perpendicular point. Its hit or miss if I get a start with a dot, taper, or even width.

    I have to back space and say that I am coming from over 20 years of competition rifle shooting where trigger control is about everything. Thats where I'm not sure if its just me being over sensitive from that. But it bugs the daylights out of me right now.
    Regardless, I'm still a pup at all this and dont know the fine mechanics of the brush yet. Is there anyway to dial that pretravel out?

    Other question is where I'm more sure that its me and wondering if there may be an aid or I just need to work through it.
    In graduating paint flow, the brush seems to hit a 'second stage' about half way through the travel, where there is a definite line in volume. That suggests a fulcrum somewhere, but I cant figure out if its inside the brush of I need to work on my trigger finger position or hold?

    I'm just starting and not anywhere near 'going live' yet in this endeavor, but would like to get the mechanics sorted out first.

    One thing to mention is that I have just been using the Com-Art paint that was included with the AB as a 'bonus set'. I would assume that Iwata wouldnt throw their premium paints in a starter box.
    So maybe I need to get off my arse (and wallet) and find a 'my' paint?

    As you can see I'm just guessing and hypothesizing a lot here. :) Hence the questions.

    Thanks for any coaching on this!
  2. AndreZA

    AndreZA Love this place! Forum Supporter Very Likeable!

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    I have no dead spot on mine if the paint and air mixture is correct. For the second stage paint volume I can not comment as I never pull a trigger that far back.
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  3. Ronald art

    Ronald art Air-Valve Autobot! Very Likeable!

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    same here no dead spot in mine , but if the paint is to thick and the pressure to low there can be a slight delay in the response time
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  4. Squishy

    Squishy Queen Clown Slayer Very Likeable!

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    I haven't used Com-art, but it is many peoples favourite paint. Great for fine art stuff, so no worries there. Are you leaning toward a particular area of painting yet? This might influence your choice if you do decide to try something else, but com-art is quality and very easy to use right from the bottle by all accounts.

    The eclipse trigger issue is something I have seen asked about once before. I don't have that issue, but it may be because I like my trigger to be fairly stiff and responsive, so wind my tensioners in quite a ways. Most people seem to like it wound out, and like a soft trigger, even using softer springs.

    I have not heard of an increase in volume like you describe though, and certainly never experienced it. So it is possible there is a brush issue, but it is possible its trigger control too. It could be that there is a slight blockage and paint is building up a little, but still flowing, then as you pull the trigger back it releases a larger than expected amount. Just a couple of musings. See I can be sensible, though it is a strain lol.
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  5. Malky

    Malky Pencil Pushing Protagonist Very Likeable!

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    Comparing an airbrush to a rifle is bit like comparing a push bike to an 18 wheeler, lol, you shouldn't expect your airbrush trigger to behave anywhere near the same as a rifle trigger, they totally different animals.

    I have the side feed eclipse which is the same as yours with the exception of the cup being on the side, I chose this because I had read several times that side feed gives you more control over what you do, I can tell you that I have had the same issue as yourself but as @AndreZA states, playing around with thinning and air ratios seemed to fix the problem in my case, it comes down to that and frequent practice to get to know your brush, it will come to you soon enough, unfortunately com-art paint by nature is already very thin, I think to thin for a 0.35 nozzle, since you can't actually thicken it I can;t see why they would include it in a starter packet, I've used with great success in a o.2 nozzle but even then you need to hold back, I can't say what paint would be but I use E'tac efx, Golden high flow acrylics and now Schminke aero colour, but what works for me won't necessarily work for everyone even with the same brush.

    Unless you want to blast something at high pressure for full coverage in one pass pulling the trigger all the back serves no purpose, it's really only able to move that far so you can blast out clogs or cover smaller objects solidly very quickly, for detailing and fine art painting it's all about fine control involving the tiniest of movements, the tutor's dot practices are designed to help with this, particularly intensities of the dots and lines.

    Iwata did throw in their premium paint because as far as I know com-art is the only paint they make, but it's handy to bare in mind that some colours, mainly darker colours and some greens and blues have a tendency to clog more that than other colours so the thinning and air pressure can be hugely different despite being of the same brand.

    It may sound daunting but you'll get used to it and it goes with the territory.;)
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2016
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  6. Splat

    Splat Guest

    You guys hit my first issue right off the bat. In the past I have always used alcohol/water based dyes and thin cut shellac with larger needles. So I have been wired to run at about 10-15 lbs of pressure, which was about perfect.
    The paint came out fine at that pressure, and I just ran with that range.
    So I'm sure the light pressure was the cause for the delayed response.
    I was just reading on Iwatas site and the recommended pressure is 20 minimum.
    Second issue isnt so easy though as I was playing with the AB after my post.

    I was closing my eyes to enhance my feel of the trigger. There was a definate drag about half way through. I put some dry erase marker on the tail of the needle and put the cap back on. Turns out the needle is off center in the cap and dragging lightly on the side of the cap at the end of its travel. So it seems like it is hitting and then releasing on the side wall of the cover.

    Need to work on that!

    Squishy, I'm finding I'm being drawn back towards gunstocks. Been in my blood since I was a kid, but got out after the price of nice wood got out of hand. So I think I'll give that a go since I have about 20 of them laying all over this shack.
    Cheap palettes for practice anyway.
    Been reading a lot about paints that are good for outdoor and reasonable colorfast quality. Wicked seems like it might be a good starting point on that.



    Yeah, Who are you and what did you do with Squishy?? :);)
  7. Splat

    Splat Guest

    Thanks Malky. Interestingly, not so much of a difference as one might think when you get into competition triggers.

    I did do the AB tutor excercise first and found that I have absolutely zero problems with dots. Got lucky there.
    Its when I have to move the brush that I go off the rails. lol
  8. Malky

    Malky Pencil Pushing Protagonist Very Likeable!

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    I shot a rifle once and if I didn't pull the trigger all the way back the baddies didn't die, lol

    Yes, actually moving the brush around isn't as easy as it sounds, I was always a graphite artist and the hardest thing to get used to for me was no feeling since there was only air between the tip and the substrate:eek:, you will get the hang of it though, and since you mentioned doing rifle butts I think a lot of what you would do would involve stencils anyway, I've seen folks doing camouflage using real leaves as stencils, although if you want tot paint a dear on it, don't use a real dear, he'll probably move around and smudge your work:confused::confused::)
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  9. markjthomson

    markjthomson AKA QuickDraw and very happy #nobrushleftbehind Staff Member Admin SuperMod

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    My eclipse has a bit of travel before it engages, it's not like a 2 stage trigger on a rifle... just a bit of "slop" in the design, Don't have it one either of my microns. You get used to it.
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  10. Splat

    Splat Guest

    Thanks Mark, that helps a lot. Uncertainty is common when you are forced to admit to yourself that you dont know everything. Now I can blame the airbrush for everything I deem convenient. :)
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  11. musicmacd

    musicmacd The Createx Bandit Very Likeable!

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    Sounds like a dirty cap, com art is thin as water and should come out instantly even with an off centre needle? I experience this when doing heavy work and getting a little. Build up of paint on in the cap. I use wooden cocktail sticks to poke em clean. Hope this helps
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  12. crewchief227

    crewchief227 Needle-chuck Ninja Very Likeable!

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    Never heard of a second stage, the needle is one consistent taper, if you want more immediate than spongy control I would suggest upping the spring tension, I keep my Micron and CS a little higher then normal for more control. As far as having a graduated flow for the whole trigger travel, will like mentioned above most of us are lucky if we pull it back more then an 1/8th or 1/4 of the way. The only reason I pull back more is to blow off paint hard before spraying another run to clear the nozzle and needle. It just takes time, a lot of time, to get used to your brush, I have over a 1,000 hours on my micron so far and it just is now comfy like worn in underwear. LOL
  13. Splat

    Splat Guest

    OK, 'Atta Boy' and 'Atta Girl' 's' are due all around for everyone that helped me here.

    You guys werent kidding when you said to feel free to ask a question and you would be happy to help. So Thank You.

    Blicks is having a great sale this week and was honestly thinking of ordering a Krome. Still might since I'm having so much fun playing. :)

    So heres the scoop, straight from the elementary school classroom of airbrushing.
    As I eluded above, I was really becoming suspect of the mechanics of my Eclipse trigger. Thinking back, the only thing that I hadnt tried was to change colors.
    The only colors that I had used were red and blue since they were obviously easier to see than yellow. For that reason, I hadnt even cracked open the yellow.
    Malkys' comment about darker colors and clogging struck a chord.

    Opened the bottle of yellow and immediately noticed that it was lighter in viscosity. It also sprayed worlds easier for me than the red/blue.
    Thought a little more about my practice methods. With doing long line, and daggers a bazillion at a time, I was 'air on' pretty much all the time.

    So here was my lesson in how a minute amount of tip dry can alter the AB performance. I just never really got it until now. Too many times, the obvious is clear as mud. :p
    And also in a BTW learned by this that different colors may need pressure tweaking.

    Such is the reason for buying a quality brush to learn with. Once again, I cant blame the brush. Thats Iwata up on me now 4-0.:(

    Malky, I'd offer you my first real painting for that comment that saved my bacon, but I dont want you to clam up when I need help again. lollollol
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  14. crewchief227

    crewchief227 Needle-chuck Ninja Very Likeable!

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    Yep pressure and reduction is something that is more by feel then anything. It is hard to teach or say "set it at 25 p.s.i" as every color and every piece will be different. It's like trying to explain to someone how to walk, you just have to do it and fall down a few times to get it right. Keep on spraying
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  15. JackEb

    JackEb The Dragon Hunter Staff Member Admin

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    It will take more than that to get Malky to clam up :cool:

    and incase it hasn't been said before, Stir your paints well. if they don't already have one, pop a small glass marble, small pebble, small stainless steel nut, into to the bottle to help mix it. I have several battery operated paint mixers but I still prefer to use a thick piece of SS wire with a hook in the end to give them a really good stir when they've been sitting awhile. some colours will separate within 10 minutes of sitting, so backflushing in the cup is a good habit to get into as well. Just make sure you back flush well away from your art work or its likely to have some unplanned freckles on it (don't ask)
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2016
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  16. Airbrush Dreams

    Airbrush Dreams Air-Valve Autobot! Very Likeable!

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    With the Eclipse CS you have the two needle set up and with Com-Art I would stick with the .35 needle nozzle combination. Com-Art is an excellent illustration paint. Paint flow can vary from color to color especially if it is a pure pigment color and not a hue. It tends to be a thinner paint in general. Definitely use around 15 to 25 psi. A lot of times there can be a slight hesitation in the beginning of the flow of paint and with practice of dots and dagger strokes you will start to get a feeling of where to start a line. Pointing at a single spot and waiting for paint is not a good habit to start. Once the needle travel is about halfway back you will be at full flow of paint because the needle tip is fully inside the nozzle by then. Backing your hand away from your substrate will give you better control over graduation in color and then layering rather than trying to blast it all in one shot. Practice is all.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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  17. Squishy

    Squishy Queen Clown Slayer Very Likeable!

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    Aaaah that eureka moment when the planets align, the clouds part, and the golden ray of cosmic wonder shines down and illuminates the path to airbrushing Nirvana. I wonder what that's like lol. My revelations usually involve double handed facepalms delivered with the force of a thunderclap, accompanied by the words "You silly tart!!!"""

    You're doing great Splat. Getting that paint/reduction/air sweetspot nailed makes everything else much easier. Half the battle is won, with only trigger control and technique left to worry about. Lol. But that's just a question of practice and time.

    Get your red or blue flowing as good as your yellow, and use that recipe as your base mix. You can then add a drop more reducer or tweak the pressure as needed from there depending on weather/humidity on a day to day . And knowing that colours like yellow need less reduction (if any) than your base, and colours such as black and white need more, it gives you a reference point to start from having that mid range base recipe - if that makes sense. It soon becomes second nature, and you wont even stop to think about it.
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  18. JackEb

    JackEb The Dragon Hunter Staff Member Admin

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    at least I know I'm on the right track, but I haven't yet tried the double handed facepalm, its usually holding the airbrush and I'm not quite at the stage where I want to impale my eye. I did a bit of editing to your post, I like my version better :laugh:
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  19. Splat

    Splat Guest

    Airbrush Dreams, Those particular tips are ones that I am in dire need of, and didnt even really know it until I read your post. Thanks. :)
    Especially the waiting for the paint to flow thing. I do have a tendency to do that at times and I got the feeling like you were looking over my shoulder today.
    Really need to get my timing down to avoid that. Its pretty much the whole basis for the start of the thread.
  20. Splat

    Splat Guest

    You are one funny chick Squishy. lol

    The deal is I think that I'm not going to be a illustration paint kind of guy and need to use something more in tune with the outdoors. From my reading it looks like Wicked may be better suited for that.
    I was reading a lot of your new/old posts including the use of 4012. If paint is going to be such a variable, I think its going to behoove me to switch right now, rather than a later switch, so my brain doesnt start smoking again from confusion.
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