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Discussion in 'Open Bar!' started by jord001, Mar 8, 2020.


  1. jord001

    jord001 Air-Valve Autobot!

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    Hi Folks, I got hold of some "new" old airbrushes..

    20200307_163412.jpg

    I managed to get hold of a Grafo
    20200307_163447.jpg 20200307_163457.jpg
    Devilbiss Super 93
    20200307_163434.jpg 20200307_163645.jpg

    and a Sparmax sp35, I dont think this is too old though.
    20200307_163517.jpg
    I've also got an old Thayer & Chandler in the post so will add that one when it comes. I will probably need some help from Mr DaveG to get two working however I think the super 93 and the sp35 will be operational but I havent tested them yet.

    @DaveG , I'm looking at the thread on the grafo and havent a clue what will fit. All I got in the box was the airbrush so no adapters or connectors. I know you have a couple of them so can you shed some light please.

    Still got my eye on a couple of others so might have a few more to share..

    Lee
  2. SiRoxx

    SiRoxx Party Boy UK Style Staff Member Mod Very Likeable!

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    You’re building up a nice little collection there Buddy. It’s always interesting to see these older brushes.
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  3. DaveG

    DaveG Airbush Analyst Very Likeable!

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    I've got the same boxed super93 set. It was unused when I got it a couple of years ago. I replaced the air valve spring, and needle spring with custom units to soften it up a little, and it is lovely brush.

    The Grafo is an older model. There would have been a separate compartment in the case with a hose barb/bulb that screwed into the bottom of the brush. There ere several older models that had this sort of set up, mostly European, and it seems that part is the most common to be lost... If you can figure how to measure the internal thread on the valve, it should be easy enough to make something to fit.
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  4. jord001

    jord001 Air-Valve Autobot!

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    I may be mistaken Dave but isn't there a Fischer airbrush almost identical to the Super 93? And also not sure if its true but does the Super 93 have a 0.10 setup? I believe the Super 63's have either a 0.12 Fine or 0.66 High Flow setup..
    I got the T&C now and its got a few spare needles with it which I think it may need. Looks like its been left with paint in it, needle is caked in what looks like either black India ink or paint.. will try and clean it although it does have a slight bend in it.. I'm sure i can straighten it out, its not too bad. In the meantime I will check the other needles to see if there's a straight one.

    Yes mate, I do have a few and I do get them with the intent of using them and luckily only a couple don't work due to parts being missing or broken, which I'm sure I could make if I had a mini lathe..

    Dave, I have vernier calipers and a pitch gauge although the gauge may not go fine enough.. Any ideas if its metric or imperial? Going to look for a more micro version gauge.

    Will upload pics of the T&C probably tomorrow..

    Lee
  5. DaveG

    DaveG Airbush Analyst Very Likeable!

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    There is a Fischer that is like the Aerograph. It was Fischer that purchased Letraset, and therefore Aerograph. I have heard mention that the Fischer parts were cheap in comparison. I do not have any idea how close to the same the Fischer branded brushes were, though. Someone gave me a lot of needles and nozzles for a Fischer, but I have yet to find one to purchase. The Fischer pieces I have are different than the Aerograph pieces I have... I am pretty sure that the smallest size is actually .12. I have heard people call it a .1, but have never seen it written that way in parts descriptions.

    No idea on the pitch gauge you have, they are usually marked.
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  6. jord001

    jord001 Air-Valve Autobot!

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    Yes mine is marked with the pitches but is probably too coarse for the tiny threads in the airbrush..

    Thanks for the info.. Just had another super 63 arrive in good condition. Will try and get a look at it properly over the weekend.

    Lee
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  7. jord001

    jord001 Air-Valve Autobot!

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    Ok so these are what have arrived over the last week or so..

    The T&C is in reasonable condition and will hopefully work after a clean. Its got several needles with it so there should be one thats good.

    s-l1600 (1).jpg

    The Super 63 also looks in good condition and also has a few needles spare.

    s-l1600.jpg

    I also got some mini cutting dies, 1.4mm 1.6mm 1.7mm and 1.8mm
    Cant remember the exact reason for them but Its to do with airbrushes.
    SmallDies.jpg

    Thats it for now.

    Lee
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  8. jord001

    jord001 Air-Valve Autobot!

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    Ok, I've had a mess about with my acquisitions... Some good results and some bad so I will be asking for the assistance of our very knowledgeable DaveG on some things...

    First one I tried was the Sparmax SP35
    I gave it a good clean, checked the needle and nozzle, needle needed a clean, nozzle looked good. Hooked it up to the compressor and it sprayed really nicely. I used etac efx for the test. The green paint was a bit light so I swapped to blue for the next one.
    Image 2020-04-05_19-34-32-785.jpeg

    Second was the DeVilbiss Super63 A. Once again I checked the nozzle, needle and cup, gave them a clean, put it back together and it sprayed nicely.
    Image 2020-04-05_19-34-48-355.jpeg

    Third was the T&C model A?? took it apart, cleaned the needle, cup and checked the nozzle, all looked good. However, when hooked up to the air it does not let air through when the trigger is pressed.. I'm assuming its the air valve. (this is where @DaveG 's expertise comes in) Needle moved backwards and forwards with the trigger, just no air being allowed through.

    Fourth was the DeVilbiss Super93, this was the one I was waiting to mess with as I've been after one for years.. A little disappointment here, it sprays but stutters.. Checked the needle and nozzle, all seems ok, but tried a new nozzle in case however its still doing the same. It has a ptfe o ring which sits on the bottom of the drop in nozzle. I am attempting to remove but with not much luck. I have new replacements so as soon as I can remove it I can try again. I don't think it was the cap leaking air but I will reseal it and try again at some point.
    EDIT:: Managed to get the o ring out and replaced both nozzle and o ring.. Working great.. Chuffed to bits.
    super93.jpg

    And last but not least was the Grafo, its clean already but I checked the needle and nozzle anyway, cleaned the needle, nozzle looked clean. I cant attach it to the air as I do not have an adapter to hook it up. Doesn't really matter at the moment because the needle doesn't move when the trigger is moved. Again I need the expertise of DaveG. There is a tiny chuck nut which is tight. I have undone it and checked it out and re-tightened it but the needle still moves freely but not with the trigger. What am I missing Dave? Am I actually missing anything or does it look ok. Oh got to ask about adapters for QR fittings?
    grafo.jpg

    All help is greatly appreciated of course. But for now that's it, updates will be posted once I can get some more results..

    Lee
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  9. DaveG

    DaveG Airbush Analyst Very Likeable!

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    you have a photo of the TC I seem to think it as bigger than an A, maybe a B model... yes, no air will be the air valve. They use a fiber disk, or rubber washer seal. You may have to clean it out, and switch over to an o-ring. The other thing I will ask - does the trigger depress? Sometimes the valve pins get stuck in the body.

    On the Grafo, that one is older than the ones I have played with - but, unless i am mistaken, the needle "chuck' is that thumb screw behind the trigger. Tighten it down to grab the needle. The nut at the back where you would normally tighten a needle chuck is for adjusting the fixed double action. The brush should work by first initiating air flow with the trigger moving backwards, then paint flow. There needs to be a slight pause before needle movement.

    The 93 is a lovely brush. I really enjoy mine.
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  10. DaveG

    DaveG Airbush Analyst Very Likeable!

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    I just looked back at your other photo's - the Thayer Chandler has a serial number on top, just before the handle - should end in a "B" - as this is a model B, not model A. Larger diameter body with larger nozzle and needle combo. They had A, B and C models, each being larger than the other.

    Does the trigger depress, and spring back up when attached to air?
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  11. jord001

    jord001 Air-Valve Autobot!

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    Yes Dave the trigger does depress on the T&C seems to work as normal, just no air. Only just got in so will go and check the T&C and twiddle that thumb screw on the Grafo.
    Tried to measure the thread for the air valve on the Grafo but my thread gauge is physically too big to fit in the stem. I might grind or file the gauge so it will fit in the valve stem and then I can check the thread pitch. From there I can probably make an adapter to be able to attach a QC.

    A 6mm bolt starts to go in but the threads are different, I measured the bolt pitch at 1mm so as it didn't fit I very very gently screwed a 6mm x 0.75 tap into the thread, it seemed to go in fairly easily but I didn't turn it in too much in case it damaged the thread. I've ordered some 6mm rod to cut a thread to .75 to see if it fits. I have a few other 6mm dies with different thread pitches so will try them also. I am assuming its a metric thread? Could it be any different?

    Lee
  12. DaveG

    DaveG Airbush Analyst Very Likeable!

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    Lots of the German brushes do seem to favor the .75mm pitch. I have a brush that at one time was branded as a Grafo somewhere around WW2 - Later branded as a Prinz.... I will check that one and see what thread pitch it has. Might be a clue.
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  13. DaveG

    DaveG Airbush Analyst Very Likeable!

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    I checked my Prinz, (which is formally a Grafo ;)), and it is a m6x.75mm thread on the air boss. On the Prinz, the air valve is part of the piece that threads in - may wind up being the same on your Grafo - so you may also need to fashion a valve stem, and seat. If it gets to that point, I will take lots of photo's (with specs) as far as what I have here.
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  14. jord001

    jord001 Air-Valve Autobot!

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    Nice one Dave. Not sure I wil be able to do much in the way of machining as i've only got basic tools but I will do what I can.

    Lee
  15. DaveG

    DaveG Airbush Analyst Very Likeable!

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    If it gets to it, i may be able to make the valve parts, valve stem and a quick connect. All you would have to do is cut the valve stem down a little at a time till you find the proper length... but, we will cross that bridge if and when we get there.
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  16. jord001

    jord001 Air-Valve Autobot!

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    Ok I tried the thumb screw on the Grafo and yep it moves the needle and I can see the valve pin moving in the stem.
    The T&C is a 'B' and 6641 B is the serial number. I've taken the air valve apart but cant see any type of fibre disk or o ring anywhere.. The Trigger worked as it should with or without air just no air being allowed through to the airbrush.

    Lee
  17. DaveG

    DaveG Airbush Analyst Very Likeable!

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    OK, lets try this - The TC has an adjustable regulator head. If the front regulator is screwed all the way in, it is possible for it to close off air flow. Try unscrewing the front piece of the head assembly three full turns, and then try again. I will have to double check, but think the standard setting is three and half turns out from fully seated, and then adjust from there.
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  18. jord001

    jord001 Air-Valve Autobot!

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    @DaveG , THANKYOU !!
    You hit the nail on the head.. I initially opened the head to 3 turns and it let air out. I have messed about with the position and have found the sweetest spot at 3 turns like you suggested. It does splutter and pulse quite a bit though, but sprays ok apart from that.
    tandc.jpg
    Now, me being really unfamiliar with T&C airbrushes what could be the issue there? I'm guessing it needs a good clean? Needle is spotless and polished, I can try one of the other I got with it. As its late here 0:45 and I have to be up for work in a few hours I haven't examined the nozzle in depth yet. However I will have a closer look when I get home tomorrow. Once again Thankyou.


    Lee
  19. DaveG

    DaveG Airbush Analyst Very Likeable!

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    I'll get some picts with descriptions in the AM here. It is usually an air leak around the head that causes sputtering on these brushes. Mostly, they were sealed with just wax.
  20. DaveG

    DaveG Airbush Analyst Very Likeable!

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    OK, about that pulsing - it is usually an air leak from either the head stem, or head seal against the body that causes this. In the day, the head parts were normally sealed to the body using wax. I do this on some of my more correct restorations, but it is a pain. The wax must be melted to liquid form, and the parts must be warmed enough to keep the wax soft when applied, so that the parts can be screwed into position without breaking the wax or having it flake off. The goal is to have the wax fill any potential gap that might allow air in or out. Much easier to use lip balm on a brush you will be using from time to time, as it is quick and easy, and fast to redo if the need arise.

    Here's my Model B. I do have a wax restoration on this brush - so rather than break the seal, I use a Model A to show the rest of the photo's.

    DSC_7856.jpg

    To seal the head, it obviously has to be removed first. You may have to warm the brush if it feels like it won't move. Running the head under hot water may be enough. Head removed clean all surfaces of any potential contaminants, dirt, or grit. I then apply a small bead of lip balm to the edge of the brush body where the head will seat. Here I am using Burt's Bees Lip Balm with Zinc. The Zinc allows it to show well in photo's, and the balm is a bit firmer than those without it.

    DSC_7857.jpg

    Make sure you go all the way around the circumference - it is OK if you have spots were just a very minimal surface smear is present, as that is all that will really be needed.

    DSC_7858.jpg

    Next I apply wax to the stem of the head base. Not too much, as it can wad up as the head is installed onto the brush, and block off air flow into the head base.

    DSC_7860.jpg

    I also add a smear of wax to the regulator head threads. The brush will work fine without this step, but I shoot for consistency, and assuring you are using the air exiting the brush rather than it escaping before flowing over the nozzle will help get there. I add a smear to the threads here, and screw the regulator in about half way, then a turn it out, then in, and out a couple times to work the wax into the threads then seat it, and back it out 3 turns.

    DSC_7861.jpg

    I install the head on the brush before doing the regulator cap. I also wipe all the squeezed out wax off from around the head. Once the regulator cap is installed and adjusted, I check for air leaks by releasing air while drizzling cleaner around the head pieces. If there are bubbles or foam, I didn't get it right. I take it apart, wipe clean, and start over - it only really takes a few minutes to do... Hope this helps, and good luck!
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