Sotar side feed
- Thread starter AndreZA
- Start date
I thought this meant CL had successfully gotten in contact with Ferret. If that is not yet the case, then I have to retract my "good to know". Concerns aren't settled until " those in the know" includes the customer base.
AndreZA
Air-Valve Autobot!
@Nessus, that was the impression I got from messages received.
"I have been in touch with ............., he has not been waiting three weeks, he waited five days......... Badger drop ships all orders the same day or next day at the latest with confirmation tracking. I was out if town show when his order came in so upon my return his order was submitted and shipped days ago... I read his complaints none are justified..........."
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ferret
Guest
Something a miss here .i have not received any communication or replies either via fb or his website .i have not placed the order yet due to the fact of having no replies . I have been on the case for weeks since the start of this post . I contacted badger customer services in the end ,yes they replied but have not answered my ?s ,so I contacted them again but still awaiting a reply . I have tried CL site again and it still comes up with an error message in a red box to contact administrator by another means . I have not made any complaints but only asked ?s so I think I am being confused with someone else . I will give it some more time to see if CL replies via fb or badger replies if not I think I'm going to look at an alternative side feed brush .
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ferret
Guest
I forgot to add that on FB due to his page restrictions I could not leave any comments or add to friend to be able to leave a comment . I then managed to leave a message in the older fb messaging way. But get prompted to pay money to make sure CL got alerted to said message ,according to fb messages were received ,that's all I can tell you really .
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ferret
Guest
Well, despite expressed uncertainties (made myself sound a wee more pessimistic than I really am), I ordered one on Sunday night. I'll keep you guys appraised of how it goes.
So far:
Ordered on Sunday, payed via Paypal during checkout. Checkout system was bare-bones, relying on PayPal for shipping address and email and such. Once payment was complete, PayPal did not redirect back to the CLS website. Appeared to be that way by design rather than glitch (i.e. there wasn't a failed redirect, it just didn't have a redirect prompt at all). I have a receipt from Paypal, but not an order# from CLS. I have no idea how this would work if one payed with credit card instead (there were credit card options in the checkout at CLS).
Paypal payment went through on Monday. As of today (Wednesday), I have not yet received a confirmation email from either CLS or Badger.
So far:
Ordered on Sunday, payed via Paypal during checkout. Checkout system was bare-bones, relying on PayPal for shipping address and email and such. Once payment was complete, PayPal did not redirect back to the CLS website. Appeared to be that way by design rather than glitch (i.e. there wasn't a failed redirect, it just didn't have a redirect prompt at all). I have a receipt from Paypal, but not an order# from CLS. I have no idea how this would work if one payed with credit card instead (there were credit card options in the checkout at CLS).
Paypal payment went through on Monday. As of today (Wednesday), I have not yet received a confirmation email from either CLS or Badger.
Note: this was supposed to be an edit to the above, not a new post, but the time limit on editing is rather draconian, it seems.
Notable at unboxing:
*Tip assembly has the black SOTOR coating, which my regular SOTAR does not.
*Box is much smaller than that of the regular SOTAR, and the butt of the needle contacts the upper right corner: must check nozzle for damage from impacts to the needle during transit.
*Ambidextrous cup hole cap fits well, but there is what appears to be rust (odd, since the parts are brass) trapped between the cap and body. Will have to polish that carefully to avoid effecting fit.
*Parts appear to be cleaner than on my regular SOTAR: shinier finish, crisper edges.
*Color cup does noticeably effect the balance. It's a very light brush to begin with, and the color cup is a nice chunk of metal with a relatively long moment arm. I intend to modify plastic Aztek cups to fit, which if doable should fix this.
For those who are curious, "Wonderfest Edition" means this was originally intended to be sold at Wonderfest, which is a major Sci-Fi/Fantasy modeling convention held annually in both the US and Japan. Dunno if it was just the debut sale venue, or if it was originally supposed to be a con exclusive, or what.
Give me a couple days to filddle with it, and I'll post some more in-depth info.
Notable at unboxing:
*Tip assembly has the black SOTOR coating, which my regular SOTAR does not.
*Box is much smaller than that of the regular SOTAR, and the butt of the needle contacts the upper right corner: must check nozzle for damage from impacts to the needle during transit.
*Ambidextrous cup hole cap fits well, but there is what appears to be rust (odd, since the parts are brass) trapped between the cap and body. Will have to polish that carefully to avoid effecting fit.
*Parts appear to be cleaner than on my regular SOTAR: shinier finish, crisper edges.
*Color cup does noticeably effect the balance. It's a very light brush to begin with, and the color cup is a nice chunk of metal with a relatively long moment arm. I intend to modify plastic Aztek cups to fit, which if doable should fix this.
For those who are curious, "Wonderfest Edition" means this was originally intended to be sold at Wonderfest, which is a major Sci-Fi/Fantasy modeling convention held annually in both the US and Japan. Dunno if it was just the debut sale venue, or if it was originally supposed to be a con exclusive, or what.
Give me a couple days to filddle with it, and I'll post some more in-depth info.
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ferret
Guest
Well that is quick ,I am looking forward to your review . I would also fit the Aztec cups ,probably just get an extra blanking plug and drill it out to suit . You have answered more of my than badger or CL so far. Lol .
Drilling out a blanking cap wouldn't work in this case, as the Badger feed tube is actually smaller in diameter than the Aztek's. I'm thinking get a bit of steel tube matching the Badger cup's feed tube, then cutting down and drilling out the Aztek cup's feed tube and epoxying a bit of the steel tube inside. I'll probably do that over the weekend, as that'll be my earliest opportunity to shop for the tubing.
I did have the opportunity this evening to do the standard new brush tear down inspection, as well as a quick lines & squiggles test with some liquid watercolor. Not much, but I did learn that:
* The balance thing I mention is a total non-issue in practice, as once it's hooked up, the air line acts as a keel or plumb, so you don't feel any balance issues from the cup at all. Still gonna do the Aztek cup thing though, as that'll make the whole thing even more compact (and easier to clean).
* Surprisingly, It appears to be easier to clean than the standard gravity feed SOTAR already. Could go into much more detail here, but the TL/DR is that although it has more parts and longer overall internal paint travel, crevices are fewer and more accessible. Seems counterintuitive on paper, but the devil is in the details.
* The super-short distance between the grip/trigger and the tip is awesome. I was expecting it to make a difference, but I was surprised at just how transformative that difference was. It feels very nearly like drawing with pen or pencil.
It's still very early yet, but barring any issues that show up when I start putting actual media-based paints through it, I feel like my regular SOTAR is going to be relegated to a parts donor and/or emergency backup role from here out. Even in my limited testing so far, it just feels like a more "complete" version of the SOTAR. The difference in handling resulting from the short trigger-to-tip distance kinda makes everything else click together into a new animal, truly optimized for it's role.
I did have the opportunity this evening to do the standard new brush tear down inspection, as well as a quick lines & squiggles test with some liquid watercolor. Not much, but I did learn that:
* The balance thing I mention is a total non-issue in practice, as once it's hooked up, the air line acts as a keel or plumb, so you don't feel any balance issues from the cup at all. Still gonna do the Aztek cup thing though, as that'll make the whole thing even more compact (and easier to clean).
* Surprisingly, It appears to be easier to clean than the standard gravity feed SOTAR already. Could go into much more detail here, but the TL/DR is that although it has more parts and longer overall internal paint travel, crevices are fewer and more accessible. Seems counterintuitive on paper, but the devil is in the details.
* The super-short distance between the grip/trigger and the tip is awesome. I was expecting it to make a difference, but I was surprised at just how transformative that difference was. It feels very nearly like drawing with pen or pencil.
It's still very early yet, but barring any issues that show up when I start putting actual media-based paints through it, I feel like my regular SOTAR is going to be relegated to a parts donor and/or emergency backup role from here out. Even in my limited testing so far, it just feels like a more "complete" version of the SOTAR. The difference in handling resulting from the short trigger-to-tip distance kinda makes everything else click together into a new animal, truly optimized for it's role.
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ferret
Guest
Well I just had a reply from cl on how to get his 20/20 to the UK ,with a time frame etc ,so order will be going in very soon .
Couldn't find any tube of the right size locally (for the Aztek cup conversion), so I had to go online. Also I reconsidered using steel tube, as it occurred to me that the difference in metal hardness might cause the hole in the AB body to get worn loose over time. So I ordered brass instead. Tracking # says it should arrive tomorrow or Friday, so it'll prolly be the weekend again before I'll have a mod to show, sorry about that.
For anyone interested, according to my caliper measurements off the Badger cup's tube, this should be the correct size tubing:
Brass: http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=4372&step=4&showunits=inches&id=84&top_cat=79
Steel: http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=14817&step=4&showunits=inches&id=902&top_cat=1
Though it'll still need a bit of a taper sanded onto the end to make it wedge properly into the body.
For anyone interested, according to my caliper measurements off the Badger cup's tube, this should be the correct size tubing:
Brass: http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=4372&step=4&showunits=inches&id=84&top_cat=79
Steel: http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=14817&step=4&showunits=inches&id=902&top_cat=1
Though it'll still need a bit of a taper sanded onto the end to make it wedge properly into the body.
Well, tubing arrived to day (some of it, at least: see below), and it turns out it was the wrong size.
[Rant] Goddam, I hate American measurements. I once heard an Aussie refer to American measurements as 'wizard measurements", and it's a mockery I, as an american, TOTALLY agree with. ESPECIALLY "decimal inches" which are like the legless mutant baby of imperial and metric. They are more practical than fractional inches, true, but they're like a symbol of how completely frakked-up our culture is about the whole metric adoption issue. It's like our engineers really, really wanted to go metric, but the idiots beat them down, so they had to cram this limping pathetic creature into being just so they could tell the idiots they were still using inches. [/Rant]
ANYWAY, I think I know what size to actually get... but I'm gonna have to look for a new vendor. The folks I linked to above shipped my order in a plastic envelope, which predictably resulted in one of the lengths of tubing inside punching through the envelope and escaping during transit. I emailed them about it, but unless I get a really good response, I don't wanna trust them again now.
So the cup thing is gonna be back-burnered 'till this BS is sorted out.
[Rant] Goddam, I hate American measurements. I once heard an Aussie refer to American measurements as 'wizard measurements", and it's a mockery I, as an american, TOTALLY agree with. ESPECIALLY "decimal inches" which are like the legless mutant baby of imperial and metric. They are more practical than fractional inches, true, but they're like a symbol of how completely frakked-up our culture is about the whole metric adoption issue. It's like our engineers really, really wanted to go metric, but the idiots beat them down, so they had to cram this limping pathetic creature into being just so they could tell the idiots they were still using inches. [/Rant]
ANYWAY, I think I know what size to actually get... but I'm gonna have to look for a new vendor. The folks I linked to above shipped my order in a plastic envelope, which predictably resulted in one of the lengths of tubing inside punching through the envelope and escaping during transit. I emailed them about it, but unless I get a really good response, I don't wanna trust them again now.
So the cup thing is gonna be back-burnered 'till this BS is sorted out.
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ferret
Guest
I think an easier way is to sand down the Aztec cups tube so it fits in the sotar
I considered that, as it would indeed be the simplest way on paper. However I was worried about by ability to achieve an evenly round taper that would fit to the body without gaps, as well as the fact that doing this would leave you with a tube which would be extremely thin walled and delicate.
Replacing it with a metal tube is on paper extremely simple. It's only the sourcing issue that's making it not.
BUUUUUUT, last night in a fit of frustration-induced stubbornness, I forged ahead and did it the hardest way possible:
I took a bit of wrong sized brass, and "machined" it to fit. I.e. I chucked it in my Dremel tool and "lathed" it down with micro files, drilled out the inside, filed a slanted flare inside one end to match the inlet at the bottom of the cup, then polished the inside as best I could (put the tube in a pin vice, and used a round toothpick loaded with Flitz chucked in the Dremel). I glued it into the cup with JB weld.
Dunno whether I should feel proud, or think the joke's on me, or what, but the important thing is it's DONE, and I now have the side-feed SOTAR with Aztek cup that I'd been picturing in my head for half a year. Woohoo!
Replacing it with a metal tube is on paper extremely simple. It's only the sourcing issue that's making it not.
BUUUUUUT, last night in a fit of frustration-induced stubbornness, I forged ahead and did it the hardest way possible:
I took a bit of wrong sized brass, and "machined" it to fit. I.e. I chucked it in my Dremel tool and "lathed" it down with micro files, drilled out the inside, filed a slanted flare inside one end to match the inlet at the bottom of the cup, then polished the inside as best I could (put the tube in a pin vice, and used a round toothpick loaded with Flitz chucked in the Dremel). I glued it into the cup with JB weld.
Dunno whether I should feel proud, or think the joke's on me, or what, but the important thing is it's DONE, and I now have the side-feed SOTAR with Aztek cup that I'd been picturing in my head for half a year. Woohoo!
F
ferret
Guest
Well. Done ,where there's a will there's always a way . Gets some paint in there and let me know what you think
So after doing some practice with it, the Aztek cup has not turned out to be as good an idea as I hoped (in general, I mean: the mod worked fine). Despite being smaller, lighter, and more streamlined, it actually presents some ergonomic downsides that the stock Badger side cup doesn't have.
First, because of the short tip-distance, the long tube on the Badger cup is important for finger-clearance. This was obvious beforehand, and I had thought that because the Aztek cup was small and a gravity-type (the body of it is above the tube instead of below) it would not interfere with fingers the way a close-fitting siphon cup would, but that turned out to be incorrect. It's only minor thing: more of an itch than something that actually complicates grip in a meaningful way, but it does reduce the pen-like feel I was after w/ this brush.
Second, the cup being located above the brush causes the cup rim to come very close to contacting the work surface a lot when doing fine lines. This is because w/ the short tip length, both the Aztek and the Badger cups are actually very close to flush with the tip on their front edge, and w/ the Aztek cup, that rim is distanced a bit from the body in the vertical axis, so if the brush is held with even a slight tilt, that rim is levered toward the work surface. This also means it tends to occlude one's view of the work surface to the immediate right of the tip much worse than with a regular top feed (close-in visibility was never an issue for me with my regular SOTAR or HP-CS, but was a very noticeable one here). This would not likely be a problem with an Eclipse or a Renegade or many other side feed models out there, it's just a thing with this brush (and the Badger 100SF, by extension), because of the uniquely short tip distance.
In theory, one could do the same mod but with a siphon-type Aztek side cup and a longer tube adapter, but I'm not going to bother unless the internal tube of the Badger cup turns out to be particularly hard to clean.
I don't regret going to all the trouble over doing the mod though. Sometimes the only way to learn is by doing, and hopefully my experiences here will be useful to others.
First, because of the short tip-distance, the long tube on the Badger cup is important for finger-clearance. This was obvious beforehand, and I had thought that because the Aztek cup was small and a gravity-type (the body of it is above the tube instead of below) it would not interfere with fingers the way a close-fitting siphon cup would, but that turned out to be incorrect. It's only minor thing: more of an itch than something that actually complicates grip in a meaningful way, but it does reduce the pen-like feel I was after w/ this brush.
Second, the cup being located above the brush causes the cup rim to come very close to contacting the work surface a lot when doing fine lines. This is because w/ the short tip length, both the Aztek and the Badger cups are actually very close to flush with the tip on their front edge, and w/ the Aztek cup, that rim is distanced a bit from the body in the vertical axis, so if the brush is held with even a slight tilt, that rim is levered toward the work surface. This also means it tends to occlude one's view of the work surface to the immediate right of the tip much worse than with a regular top feed (close-in visibility was never an issue for me with my regular SOTAR or HP-CS, but was a very noticeable one here). This would not likely be a problem with an Eclipse or a Renegade or many other side feed models out there, it's just a thing with this brush (and the Badger 100SF, by extension), because of the uniquely short tip distance.
In theory, one could do the same mod but with a siphon-type Aztek side cup and a longer tube adapter, but I'm not going to bother unless the internal tube of the Badger cup turns out to be particularly hard to clean.
I don't regret going to all the trouble over doing the mod though. Sometimes the only way to learn is by doing, and hopefully my experiences here will be useful to others.
Oh, one extra thing I noticed during cleaning:
Unlike with the regular SOTAR, the nozzle head on this model appears to be permanently soldered to the body. There are no flat spaces on the sides for the head spanner, and the join w/ the body has no seam "crack", appearing to be unbrokenly covered by the black surface coating. As long as the needle tube inside is also soldered instead of having a Teflon washer like the regular SOTAR, I don't think this is an issue, and may even be an improvement.
Mostly it seems odd because the brush DID come with a head spanner... which has literally no other use.
Unlike with the regular SOTAR, the nozzle head on this model appears to be permanently soldered to the body. There are no flat spaces on the sides for the head spanner, and the join w/ the body has no seam "crack", appearing to be unbrokenly covered by the black surface coating. As long as the needle tube inside is also soldered instead of having a Teflon washer like the regular SOTAR, I don't think this is an issue, and may even be an improvement.
Mostly it seems odd because the brush DID come with a head spanner... which has literally no other use.
