Troubleshooting airbrush Omni 5000

[John V]

Hi all
My TC Omni 5000 AB has an air leak when I depress the finger rocker. The leak goes out around the rocker trigger. I can hear it and if I put water on it the trigger bubbles, But no air is leaking through the nozzle.
The air leak only happens when the trigger is pressed for air.
The AB is working but I do not think air is supposed to work this way.
Thank you for your help.

 

[JackEb]

I'll jump in and drop this here:
at least then everyone will be talking about the same part

 

[Don Wheeler]

You're always going to get a little air leak around a T&C/Badger trigger. When you press the trigger, air is released into the upper part of the air valve. There is no rubber seal around the pin as there is in some other brands, just a close fit. If your 5000 has been used a lot, the pin or the opening in the top of the valve may be worn. A few bubbles are normal. An audible hiss, not so much. You could try replacing the pin, part T14 or the whole valve, T36. If it is a new airbrush, I would contact Badger.

Don

 

[DaveG]

The TC, and Badger airbrushes do not use any sort of a seal in the area between the air valve, and brush body. Most other bands use an o-ring to keep air from bypassing the trigger post, and exiting into the brush body. The TC relies on a close tolerance between the air valve pin, and air channel to keep air from exiting up by the trigger - but some will always get by. You can try replacing the air valve pin, in hopes of finding one that is a tighter fit, but there will still be some air exiting there...

 

[John V]

I'll jump in and drop this here:
at least then everyone will be talking about the same part

View attachment 56934

Thank you JackEb T36 is the complete assembly ?

 

[John V]

You're always going to get a little air leak around a T&C/Badger trigger. When you press the trigger, air is released into the upper part of the air valve. There is no rubber seal around the pin as there is in some other brands, just a close fit. If your 5000 has been used a lot, the pin or the opening in the top of the valve may be worn. A few bubbles are normal. An audible hiss, not so much. You could try replacing the pin, part T14 or the whole valve, T36. If it is a new airbrush, I would contact Badger.

Don

Oh your are the famous Don Wheeler . Glad to meet you I have learned a lot from your web page.
Can you tell me how to remove the air valve assembly from the Omni 5000 ? Is it the brass hex nut on the base of the valve , Or the knurled chrome ring closer to the body of the brush ?
John

 

[John V]

The TC, and Badger airbrushes do not use any sort of a seal in the area between the air valve, and brush body. Most other bands use an o-ring to keep air from bypassing the trigger post, and exiting into the brush body. The TC relies on a close tolerance between the air valve pin, and air channel to keep air from exiting up by the trigger - but some will always get by. You can try replacing the air valve pin, in hopes of finding one that is a tighter fit, but there will still be some air exiting there...

Thank you DaveG. The air loss is small I just hear a soft bubbling sound and see a small amount of bubbles if the brush is wet .
As a beginner airbrush user I did not think the AB was supposed to leak air at all.
I have been having a difficult time getting consistent results from the brush, and finally discovered an air leak at my compressor. Fixed that one and looked for more. Found the airbrush was leaking from the air cap, Fixed that and put AB cleaner all over the brush. Now the only leak is from the trigger area. I may replace the air valve assembly at a later date, If I can learn how to do it.

John

 

[DaveG]

Thank you DaveG. The air loss is small I just hear a soft bubbling sound and see a small amount of bubbles if the brush is wet .
As a beginner airbrush user I did not think the AB was supposed to leak air at all.
I have been having a difficult time getting consistent results from the brush, and finally discovered an air leak at my compressor. Fixed that one and looked for more. Found the airbrush was leaking from the air cap, Fixed that and put AB cleaner all over the brush. Now the only leak is from the trigger area. I may replace the air valve assembly at a later date, If I can learn how to do it.

John

The air valve assembly just screws on and off the brush body. They can be quite snug, so a set of soft jaw pliers, or a decent piece of leather to wrap around it to protect the finish may be in order. Chances are, though, that it will not "cure" anything by changing it. They (Badger) have been making the valve assembly that way since their beginning, and Thayer Chandler made them that way since the 1920's. The air loss is consistent in that area, so it should not effect brush performance at all. Different story when sometimes it does it, sometimes not.

 

[Don Wheeler]

Oh your are the famous Don Wheeler . Glad to meet you I have learned a lot from your web page.
Can you tell me how to remove the air valve assembly from the Omni 5000 ? Is it the brass hex nut on the base of the valve , Or the knurled chrome ring closer to the body of the brush ?
John

Thanks, John. Like DaveG wrote, it's the knurled ring, and a few bubbles don't hurt. The pin does wear over time, and if the leak gets bad it's easy to change with a small allen wrench. Just don't lose the tiny spring.

Don

 

[Leakyvalve]

They (Badger) have been making the valve assembly that way since their beginning, and Thayer Chandler made them that way since the 1920's. The air loss is consistent in that area, so it should not effect brush performance at all. Different story when sometimes it does it, sometimes not.

Badger has a strange attitude toward this. They have to know by now it makes people uncomfortable with their brush when it's leaking air. They can do the "it don't matter. It don't effect performance" all they want, but in the end customers don't like it. It seems a very very minor deal to put an o-ring in there just like everyone else does, and not end up with God know how many of those thing heading back to the factory so you're guys can hand fit the air valve assembly. Is the new 20/20 any different?

 

[DaveG]

Badger has a strange attitude toward this. They have to know by now it makes people uncomfortable with their brush when it's leaking air. They can do the "it don't matter. It don't effect performance" all they want, but in the end customers don't like it. It seems a very very minor deal to put an o-ring in there just like everyone else does, and not end up with God know how many of those thing heading back to the factory so you're guys can hand fit the air valve assembly. Is the new 20/20 any different?

same air valve - which is just a continuation of the production they started when the company started making parts for TC, WAY back before they were an airbrush company. I have dozens of this style brush, between a decent collection of Thayer Chandler Model A's, and some very nice vintage Badgers, and I am never concerned with the air leak in that area. I did have one more recent Badger that had a very predominant leak there, could hear and feel it when the trigger was depressed, but that was taken care of by replacing the air valve pin. I do wish though, if they were going to continue to produce the parts the same way Thayer Chandler did, that they would also cup the bottom air valve spring retaining screw, to allow for a longer spring. The trigger feel on TC Model A is sublime compared to the modern Badger, although the parts are mostly identical.

 

[Don Wheeler]

That leak is normally so small that unless they put some soapy water on it, most people don't notice it. One disadvantage of the extra O-ring is that sometimes it can become sticky and need to be lubed. Paasche airbrushes don't have the O-ring either.

Don

 

[John V]

The air valve assembly just screws on and off the brush body. They can be quite snug, so a set of soft jaw pliers, or a decent piece of leather to wrap around it to protect the finish may be in order. Chances are, though, that it will not "cure" anything by changing it. They (Badger) have been making the valve assembly that way since their beginning, and Thayer Chandler made them that way since the 1920's. The air loss is consistent in that area, so it should not effect brush performance at all. Different story when sometimes it does it, sometimes not.

Thank you DaveG.
So to remove the air valve assembly I unscrew the knurled ring just below the AB body ?
John

 

[John V]

Thanks, John. Like DaveG wrote, it's the knurled ring, and a few bubbles don't hurt. The pin does wear over time, and if the leak gets bad it's easy to change with a small allen wrench. Just don't lose the tiny spring.

Don

I do not understand what you are saying. Does the air valve assembly unscrew with pliers on the knurling ? or with an allen wrench from the bottom of the valve ? Do you know what size the wrench is ?
John

 

[DaveG]

I do not understand what you are saying. Does the air valve assembly unscrew with pliers on the knurling ? or with an allen wrench from the bottom of the valve ? Do you know what size the wrench is ?
John

you can remove the air valve itself from the brush body with pliers, you can open the valve, and access the valve stem using a 1/16" allen wrench from the bottom. This may help - different brush but similar construction -
https://www.facebook.com/1063587837080137/photos/?tab=album&album_id=1163554333750153

 

[John V]

you can remove the air valve itself from the brush body with pliers, you can open the valve, and access the valve stem using a 1/16" allen wrench from the bottom. This may help - different brush but similar construction -
https://www.facebook.com/1063587837080137/photos/?tab=album&album_id=1163554333750153

DaveG Thank you for the explanation now I understand.
To fix the air leak issue I am having which part of the air valve do I need to replace ?
John

 

[DaveG]

DaveG Thank you for the explanation now I understand.
To fix the air leak issue I am having which part of the air valve do I need to replace ?
John

well, following this thread, I am not too sure you will "fix" the air leak. You could try just t14, but because the entire assembly is only a few dollars more, I would purchase the entire valve t36, and try just replacing t14 out of the new valve, before changing the whole thing out... this way you are covered in one shot without having to buy more parts later.

 

[John V]

well, following this thread, I am not too sure you will "fix" the air leak. You could try just t14, but because the entire assembly is only a few dollars more, I would purchase the entire valve t36, and try just replacing t14 out of the new valve, before changing the whole thing out... this way you are covered in one shot without having to buy more parts later.

DaveG Thank You I will follow your advise and replace the entire valve t36 when the air leak becomes bothersome. I was not aware that air valve leaking was a common minor thing on Badger airbrushes. As long as it does not affect the quality of the brush I will wait to fix.
John