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What airbrush?

Discussion in 'Airbrushes' started by Woodpecker, Jul 15, 2014.


  1. jagardn

    jagardn Airbrush Acquisition Disorder Patient Forum Supporter

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    In all honesty, I love my Micron but tend to steer new users away from it. In the learning process, you'll very likely bend a few needles and maybe even crack a few nozzles. Talk about spending some wonga, look at the part prices of the Micron compared to the Eclipse. The micron can tend to be a bit more picky with paint reduction ratios and can be infuriating for someone just learning. In the end it is your choice, but I personally would suggest the Eclipse to start out.
    ad fez likes this.
  2. ad fez

    ad fez Guest

    in ref to your new model query on the cmc+ there is not alot of difference between the old and the new, if you are making a large saving by purchasing the one with the round trigger , rather than the one with the square trigger and threaded back for your crown cap, then i would take the old model..... spray-ability/atomization would not be so great that a newer user would be able to tell the difference......

    *if you are set on getting the best you can get, while not throwing money away go for the old model......

    *keep your crown cap on so you dont bend the needle

    *dont imagine that a good brush will make you a good painter

    as mentioned before though...... the hp series is great..... rival to any other top end, non iwata brush and will serve you well at a reasonable price.....

    the micron as a first brush could be a steep /expensive learning curve.
  3. haags

    haags Young Tutorling

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    I bought a hi line for my first brush. Promptly bought a ch a week later to do the larger areas of my paintings.
    What i'm getting at is if price is not a huge issue why not get both the cm and the ch. You'll save on postage
  4. Woodpecker

    Woodpecker Double Actioner

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    Thanks for those last few replies.

    I suppose I should add that I am meticulous where any of my tools are concerned. After stripping down my present ab many times, (after every use), and reassembling, I am well aware of the delicacy of the parts.

    The larger guns are the same, but... larger!.

    I can see how bending a needle is easy, but excrement happens. I expect there's those that have never bent any. I've been in countless body shops where painters left 2k in their gun overnight, and spent the next day cleaning it out, hell, I've done it myself. Those sort of user errors do not deter me from getting a good make. I'm mature enough, in age and mentality, to not abuse anything I own.

    I do not often treat myself to a new, latest item/model, but rather go for the cheaper option. I do not expect to be a pro ab'er just 'cos I have the latest model. What I do expect is that as I improve, the ab I own will always be better than my abilities.

    The answers I seek are why the vast price difference between iwata and badger? The latest iwata 400, and krome 200. Yet when I search reviews and tests, they both seem the same. Many pro's use one or the other, and their works all seem just as good. Forget about weight, that don't concern me, after 30 yrs holding the larger guns that aint an issue. I currently spend hours using my ab with no muscle or finger ache. I'd rather have just 1 ab, not 2 or more, as I doubt I'll ever become famous....haha, it's possible, but I doubt it. For that reason I'm swayed toward the krome. I know Japanese quality is exceptional, tolerances also, but I'm sure so are many others. I'm not keen to buy German made, their cars are great, until they reach 10 yrs or older, then you may as well scrap them. I think German quality is overrated.
    American made used to be quality, until they started to have items produced in China, and packed in the states, and claiming "made in USA".
    Heck, the Japs are even starting this lark now.

    The world is not perfect, neither are people, but to aspire to greater things is in most of us. If someone wants the latest phone, iPad, tab, car, bike, or ab, then let them on. It's their money, and if they drop it, crash it, bend it, break it, then so be it.

    Please try to refrain from giving me negative aspects about how I can damage an ab, there's a multitude of people I can hear that from.
  5. Personally I wouldn't jump right into a micron. I'm one of those who doesn't believe in the "hype" choosing an ab can be difficult, I own multiple models myself. You tend to have certain guns for different things. A micron or any fine needle ab is suited for tight details, but is limited in spray pattern so things like fire or trying to do a wash is difficult with them. I have my detail brushes, my general use, my wash brush etc. Imo I would get what interests you. I've used iwata for years and even owned a couple microns, they work well but parts are pricy and I get better detail with other ab's. It's all about personal preference. Kind of like ford vs chevy people. Iwata is just a brand that has spent a ton on sponsoring ab artists and getting their name out. They are reliable and the Eclipse are a workhorse and take a lot of abuse. I just don't like how the triggers feel imo. It's also well known I personally don't like badger airbrushes, I've tried quiet a few. If I was you, I'd get a couple brands that are moderately priced with a .2 mm setup and a 3.5mm. You may find you prefer the feel of one over the other. As you grow in your skills, THEN decide which Cadillac of detail brushes you want. Some people that are beginning that start out with whatever is most popular such as the micron, can become intimidated or frustrated with using one and give up. Air pressure and paint reduction completely change from using a detail vs general spray.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk
  6. Woodpecker

    Woodpecker Double Actioner

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    Thanks. What moderately priced models would you recommend? Taking into consideration I need fine detail as a priority, and larger areas secondary. In all honesty, my knockoff, (royalmax), is fine for larger areas, and it is doing as fine as I could want for now. My priority for now is fine detail work.
  7. Madbrush

    Madbrush Guest

    I just bought this a few weeks ago, http://www.airbrushforum.org/threads/madbrush-moment.10203/ it will do exactly what you expect from the micron but at sometimes less than half the price, this one 0.2mm nozzle but also comes with a 0.3 which is even cheaper, it also has the air regulator which I find so damn handy
  8. ad fez

    ad fez Guest

    i dont think anyone including myself was questioning either your age, experience or maturity...... you came here asking for advice on airbrushes so if people are giving you the positive and negative reasons not to buy....(including being a nob and bumping your needle by accident) ( i think we have all bumped the needle it just depends how lucky you are if it bends or not) then it would be useful to know if its gonna cost you £20 (badger) or £120 (micron) to fix.....

    when aiming to get the fine detail you desire, you will have the needle cap off and be approx 5mm away from your substrate..... you will dink a few i can assure you hehehe...... madbrushes suggestion is a great buy..... any of the hp or hi line brushes will be, in my book however the micron is tops but i appreciate everyone has their own favourites.

    ken from badger is a great guy and he offers superb customer care in my experience, you could do worse than buy a krome thats for sure, oh btw..... the cmc+ is the only micron (i think) with solvent proof rubber stuff..... something to consider if you still intend on auto work/ uro paints..... the cmb and side feed dont have solvent proof o ring, more intended for fine art hence the 0.18 nozzle
  9. Mr.Micron

    Mr.Micron Royal pain in the air hose Staff Member Admin SuperMod Very Likeable!

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    According to Dave Monnig from Coast airbrush all IWATA's have solvent proof needle bearings.
    Some of the older models (Last 8 to 10 years) may not have them . But all the new ones should have them
    http://www.coastairbrushtv.com/Airbrush-Overview_p_20.html
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2014
  10. ad fez

    ad fez Guest

    according to iwatas website they dont????
  11. ad fez

    ad fez Guest

    they got a table with what each one can and cant do????
  12. ad fez

    ad fez Guest

    yup just looked, the cmc~ is the only one with ptfe, at the very least its the only one that mentions ptfe
  13. Mr.Micron

    Mr.Micron Royal pain in the air hose Staff Member Admin SuperMod Very Likeable!

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    You can get the 1-565-1 non pfte bearing But you can also get the 1-590-2 pfte bearing for all iwata's
    If you buy from coast they ensure that the 1-590-2 pfte bearings are installed .
    So I guess it will be from where you order it from.
    But even my all my Iwata's do have the nice white pfte bearing in them and all but my Eclipse CS came from Coast Airbrush.
    Even the Micron SB my friend bought had the pfte bearing.

    http://www.coastairbrush.com/micronparts.asp number 4 is the non pfte and 5a is the pfte.
  14. Hp BCS is a good starter. I still have one and its a workhorse. Has a .35 mm and I can get pretty small with it. It's a really good price well performing brush. For super fine details, I use a richpen 213c or my latest favorite for the past couple years is the mojo talon conversion. It's really cheap (can get 2 for under $300 when has special sales which is always lol) his newest setup is a .1 mm needle which I haven't gotten yet. Little caution, these don't spray right out of the box, you have to manually adjust the bearing and air cap to dial in insanely small hairlines. Not a big deal and I can explain how to so it, just a lot of beginners want right out of the box performance. Everyone has different opinions, I tend to stay away from trends and do things my way. Any brush can perform well with modifications. I can take a cheap $50 airbrush and hotrod it to perform just like anything else.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk
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  15. Squishy

    Squishy Queen Clown Slayer Very Likeable!

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    I personally believe, and it is only my opinion, that the reason Iwatas can be more expensive is down to reliability and longevity. They appear to last forever if well looked after, without losing performance, parts are tough and last a long time, the part I've replaced in my HP-Cs are down to me being an idiot rather than the product not holding up (I flared a nozzle, like I said, I'm an idiot!).

    I don't have the krome, and I know many people love and swear by it, but I have read a few things where after a while they haven't performed as well - now that could be due to any number of things, not being looked after properly for example, but I haven't seen similar things said about Iwata. Of course that doesn't mean they aren't out there, I just haven't seen them. They are the most popular brand on the forum, it could just be they are marketed better, or that people just buy because they recognise the name, but if they didn't live up to expectation they wouldn't stay top long. But badger is a well loved brand, and again it's all down to personal preference. I'm sure all the other brands hold up well too, or they wouldn't be successful, but iwata always seems to top the charts.

    If you have the opportunity to visit a shop, then have a few models that seem suitable in mind, and then try holding them to see how they feel. Comfort, weight, trigger position, etc can all help influence your choice.

    Oh and my Hp-CS has teflon seals, I assumed they all did now. :confused:
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2014
  16. wmlepage

    wmlepage Guest

    Have to agree with Squshy, I had both Iwata and Badger for a while, I now only have Iwata. For me it was feel, both in quality of parts and finish, and how it feels in my hand. Iwata just seems to have superior fit and finish. Yes price is driven by popularity to a point. I do know Iwata tells resellers what the minimum they can sell their products for.
  17. Woodpecker

    Woodpecker Double Actioner

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    @ squishy.

    I read where the thread on a crown cap on an iwata became unusable, but that could have been caused by cross threading.

    Holding them in a shop is impossible here in southern ireland, there ain't any! In fact getting anything here is pretty much a no go, probably why the country's in such a bad state. I buy pretty much everything on the net.

    Iwata does seem to have a good record, but I noticed the neo is not made in Japan......a sign of times to come?

    I'm leaning towards iwata, and now need to decide upon model. I'm sure whichever I choose it will serve my purposes well, and I'll get many years service out of it.

    I'd like to thank you all for your input, and has assisted me immensely. I will let you all know what I get when I get it.
    Cheers :cool:
  18. ad fez

    ad fez Guest

    @Woodpecker we mentioned this in another thread somewhere buddy...... the neo is made "for iwata" not "by iwata" , if you want to find out if you like throwing paint at the canvas then the neo is a great starting point, cheap(ish) cheerful and will do the job but absolutley no frills or thrills... obviously like with anything you kind of get what you pay for so the further up the range you go the better atomisation/ quality/feel etc you will get
    matty171 likes this.
  19. Squishy

    Squishy Queen Clown Slayer Very Likeable!

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    Yeah don't know what they were thinking with the neo. Trying to capture that corner of the market for those who are going to buy a cheaper brush anyway? Trying to capture brand loyalty at an early stage? Thinking if there's going to be knock offs, may as well get some of the profits? I think it's a mistake personally. But then I am no business woman Lol.

    I would spend the extra money for a real Iwata, the difference in quality is well worth it.
  20. Woodpecker

    Woodpecker Double Actioner

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    After reading an independent review on the neo I will not be getting one. Assembled in China, parts from Taiwan. The internals/externals, are the exact same as my 17 euro one, and probably done at the same factory.

    These cheap ab's are great for anyone wanting to have a go for the first-time, but not as a move forward from a knockoff, I might as well just stick with what I've got.

    It is a bad move for iwata to cheapen their name. Whether it's "made for" or "made by" is irrelevant, it's still carrying their name. For the 1000's that buy a cheapie every year, and if it carries the name iwata, I doubt it will inspire many to move onto their more up market models, and let's face it,......they ain't cheap.

    Japan want to corner every market. But they're up against China, and cannot compete with their Labour cost. So the answer is use their good name, get them produced in cheap Labour, poor civil rights countries, and basically fool people into thinking we're getting a quality product. That way their profits increase, Labour & parts costs decrease, and the board can have sushi for lunch every day....haha.

    And the rest of the world is on the same treadmill. American companies do it, Germany is starting the same scam, with so called "trade talks". BMW's will soon be "assembled in China, parts from Taiwan"........haha.

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